Kitz ADSL Broadband Information
adsl spacer  
Support this site
Home Broadband ISPs Tech Routers Wiki Forum
 
     
   Compare ISP   Rate your ISP
   Glossary   Glossary
 
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Pages: 1 [2]

Author Topic: [Split From] G.fast with Green ISP  (Read 1415 times)

dee.jay

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 468
Re: [Split From] G.fast with Green ISP
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2020, 12:40:12 PM »

Heh, I have 4 machines each with 32GB RAM here...
Logged
Sky + AAISP FTTC ~ 130/34 combined @ 3dB HG612's
Routed by pfSense on VMware ESX 6.7 on Ryzen 3 3200

Alex Atkin UK

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 2266
    • My Broadband History
Re: [Split From] G.fast with Green ISP
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2020, 02:25:24 PM »

I upgraded my desktop to 32GB while also moving from 2400Mhz RAM to 3200Mhz, it actually made a huge improvement in my frame rates in games.  Even with NVME, if you are going to be fast traveling in open world games, having a ton of RAM is hugely beneficial.

The main reason I went so big though was I have a tendency to leave tabs open (I will look at this later) and months would pass, I'd end up with thousands open and inevitably run out of RAM.

Although driver issues coming out of standby has partly cured that anyway as I have to reboot somewhat regularly lately as the sound card keeps going missing. Firefox doesn't actually load everything in a resumed tab until you view it, so uses far less RAM than just coming out of standby where it will keep it in RAM indefinitely.

I think people with gaming PCs are going to have a nasty shock coming in the next few years, once games start needing a a good NVME SSD to work at all, thanks to next-gen consoles making them mandatory.  Sooner or later, developers are going to want to make the most of that.

Oops, we seem to have gone a bit off topic.  :angel:
Logged
INTAKE (ECI) 2x Home Hub 5A OpenWrt:  1x Zen,1x Plusnet Hauwei B535-232: Voxi 4G Router: pfSense (i5-7200U) WiFi: Ubiquiti nanoHD
Thinkbroadband Quality Monitors & Zen Referral

Alex Atkin UK

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 2266
    • My Broadband History
Re: [Split From] G.fast with Green ISP
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2020, 06:46:34 PM »

I try not to judge considering my ramblings on my fibre first thread.  :angel: :lol:

That's what I love about this forum, nobody sitting on the fence ready to pounce because you went off-topic or didn't post exactly what they had in mind.
Logged
INTAKE (ECI) 2x Home Hub 5A OpenWrt:  1x Zen,1x Plusnet Hauwei B535-232: Voxi 4G Router: pfSense (i5-7200U) WiFi: Ubiquiti nanoHD
Thinkbroadband Quality Monitors & Zen Referral

dee.jay

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 468
Re: [Split From] G.fast with Green ISP
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2020, 07:14:47 PM »

It does happen sometimes, but I think it's more in the case where there is an actual decent conversation going on and the split threads within the thread are muddying it. This is actually one of a very small handful of forums I even frequent anymore. Social media has mostly destroyed forums - I used to post in many, so it is good to see a few still going.
Logged
Sky + AAISP FTTC ~ 130/34 combined @ 3dB HG612's
Routed by pfSense on VMware ESX 6.7 on Ryzen 3 3200

Alex Atkin UK

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 2266
    • My Broadband History
Re: [Split From] G.fast with Green ISP
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2020, 07:31:33 PM »

I hadn't been here in ages, its not exactly a busy forum and there wasn't really anything earth shattering to talk about until Openreach announced Fibre First for my area.

But I love its still around, it still seems to be the most comprehensive collection of information about UK broadband out there.

I did spend a lot of time away from forums, but a lot of people are even losing interest in Facebook.  So much migration over to Discord which seems a backwards step, it just looks like glorified IRC to me.  :-\
Logged
INTAKE (ECI) 2x Home Hub 5A OpenWrt:  1x Zen,1x Plusnet Hauwei B535-232: Voxi 4G Router: pfSense (i5-7200U) WiFi: Ubiquiti nanoHD
Thinkbroadband Quality Monitors & Zen Referral

dee.jay

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 468
Re: [Split From] G.fast with Green ISP
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2020, 09:46:37 PM »

Oh lord I destroyed my Facebook account 3 years ago and never looked back
Logged
Sky + AAISP FTTC ~ 130/34 combined @ 3dB HG612's
Routed by pfSense on VMware ESX 6.7 on Ryzen 3 3200

Chrysalis

  • Content Team
  • Addicted Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 6409
Re: [Split From] G.fast with Green ISP
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2020, 09:33:15 PM »

I upgraded my desktop to 32GB while also moving from 2400Mhz RAM to 3200Mhz, it actually made a huge improvement in my frame rates in games.  Even with NVME, if you are going to be fast traveling in open world games, having a ton of RAM is hugely beneficial.

The main reason I went so big though was I have a tendency to leave tabs open (I will look at this later) and months would pass, I'd end up with thousands open and inevitably run out of RAM.

Although driver issues coming out of standby has partly cured that anyway as I have to reboot somewhat regularly lately as the sound card keeps going missing. Firefox doesn't actually load everything in a resumed tab until you view it, so uses far less RAM than just coming out of standby where it will keep it in RAM indefinitely.

I think people with gaming PCs are going to have a nasty shock coming in the next few years, once games start needing a a good NVME SSD to work at all, thanks to next-gen consoles making them mandatory.  Sooner or later, developers are going to want to make the most of that.

Oops, we seem to have gone a bit off topic.  :angel:

I have been in a fair few 32gig ram discussions with people.

The big gaming pc reviewer type people, still push the idea 16 gig is all you ever need, and 95% of people argue that as well.

But I can only go by my own experience, the first problem I had was I had to keep closing chrome when playing games, 16 gig didnt cut it, and I felt that was constraining me so the PC got upgraded.  The second issue is Final Fantasy 15 has some really bad memory leak bug, and people were discovering the game was using up to around 45-50gig of virtual memory (RAM and pagefile combined), if you let it run long enough, obviously a 32 gig system made it much more bearable vs a 16 gig system, with 16gig, you would have to restart game every 5-15 mins, vs every 1-2 hours on 32 gig.

Not to mention if you work with virtual machines, ram is going to be your primary resource, even ahead of cpu core count.
Logged
AAISP - Billion 8800NL bridge & PFSense BOX running PFSense 2.4 - ECI Cab - LINE STATISTICS CLICK HERE

Alex Atkin UK

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 2266
    • My Broadband History
Re: [Split From] G.fast with Green ISP
« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2020, 01:13:32 PM »

I have been in a fair few 32gig ram discussions with people.

The big gaming pc reviewer type people, still push the idea 16 gig is all you ever need, and 95% of people argue that as well.

But I can only go by my own experience, the first problem I had was I had to keep closing chrome when playing games, 16 gig didnt cut it, and I felt that was constraining me so the PC got upgraded.  The second issue is Final Fantasy 15 has some really bad memory leak bug, and people were discovering the game was using up to around 45-50gig of virtual memory (RAM and pagefile combined), if you let it run long enough, obviously a 32 gig system made it much more bearable vs a 16 gig system, with 16gig, you would have to restart game every 5-15 mins, vs every 1-2 hours on 32 gig.

Not to mention if you work with virtual machines, ram is going to be your primary resource, even ahead of cpu core count.

Oh yeah I'd forgotten, I was also playing with PCI passthrough at the time so upgrading to 32GB meant I could allocate 16GB to a virtualised Windows VM.

I think the big gaming reviewers are mostly fair, 16GB is enough to run the game acceptably, they just never factor in things like big open world games and fast travelling around to areas still in the RAM cache.  Which makes sense, they don't have the time to test every little improvement it might give.

There's also the fact reviewers will be using a good, potentially SLC NVME drive.  Now with cheaper, relatively crap performing 3D NAND on the market, RAM can still be hugely beneficial even on a system using NVME.

I recently put a Corsair P1 in my NAS as the boot and extraction drive, was utterly appalled at how bad it performs.  The Western Digital Blue SATA SSD performs better on average, because the P1 bottlenecks FAST causing much more obvious stalls making the OS unresponsive.  When the whole point of going NVME is to make the OS MORE responsive.  The sad part is, my gaming laptop also came an Intel 660P, which is basically the same device.  For gaming workloads it seems okay, but its a far cry from the Samsung 850 EVO in my desktop.

In a broadband analogy, I'd rather have a consistent 50Mbit than a system where it peaks at a vastly higher speed, but throttles down so the average speed works out the same but you're sat watching 1K/s for minutes at a time.
Logged
INTAKE (ECI) 2x Home Hub 5A OpenWrt:  1x Zen,1x Plusnet Hauwei B535-232: Voxi 4G Router: pfSense (i5-7200U) WiFi: Ubiquiti nanoHD
Thinkbroadband Quality Monitors & Zen Referral

Chrysalis

  • Content Team
  • Addicted Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 6409
Re: [Split From] G.fast with Green ISP
« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2020, 02:10:18 PM »

Yeah the windows pagefile system is not that good, it kind of quite aggressively pages out to disk, so e.g. even if I am using about 30% of system ram only, it will start swapping, and I believe the reason is that the developers have determined its preferable to keep more data in cache even if it means you caching other data out to disk, the idea been idle data on disk will have no performance hit, but of course if the algorithm gets it wrong and you then need that data, you then become i/o bound by the ssd/hdd.  Having more ram makes it less likely this will happen of course and you could even disable the pagefile completely.

So yes very good point on the storage side of things also, not to mention more ram also means more file cache.
Logged
AAISP - Billion 8800NL bridge & PFSense BOX running PFSense 2.4 - ECI Cab - LINE STATISTICS CLICK HERE

CarlT

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1718
  • Random network numpty
Re: [Split From] G.fast with Green ISP
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2020, 11:58:50 AM »

Yeah I'll stick with the RAM I have in the server here thanks. Not quite sure 16 would suffice.
Logged
WiFi: Nighthawk® AX12 RAX120
Routing: Mikrotik CCR2004-1G-12S+2XS
Switching: Mikrotik 2 * CRS305-1G-4S-IN, 2 * CRS309-1G-8S+; 1 * CSS326-24G-2S+RM
Exchange: Wakefield
ISP: BT Full Fibre 900. Zen Full Fibre 900. Faelix FTTP 300

Alex Atkin UK

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 2266
    • My Broadband History
Re: [Split From] G.fast with Green ISP
« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2020, 12:48:50 PM »

I'd love to crank the RAM up in the NAS but its an ITX board so only two slots.

Officially I believe it only supports 32GB, although from past experience I would not be surprised if it handled 64GB, particularly if I used dual-rank sticks.  (oh interesting, apparently Z390 now supports 128GB with a BIOS update)

That said, upgrading to a high-end NVME would likely be cheaper and more beneficial. ;)
Logged
INTAKE (ECI) 2x Home Hub 5A OpenWrt:  1x Zen,1x Plusnet Hauwei B535-232: Voxi 4G Router: pfSense (i5-7200U) WiFi: Ubiquiti nanoHD
Thinkbroadband Quality Monitors & Zen Referral

dee.jay

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 468
Re: [Split From] G.fast with Green ISP
« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2020, 09:52:58 AM »

My use case for 32GB RAM isn't gaming, but virtualisation. Well, that's what I keep telling myself with my main desktop anyway. I hardly ever need to fire up a VM any longer because the "cloud" is changing my career and changing what I need to use to practice.

I use one ESX server to run pfSense and my services I need on my network so you could call that my production ESX server of sorts. The 3rd machine - well - 32TB ZFS NAS... and 4th - gaming/personal laptop - again for VM's but never spin them up any longer.
Logged
Sky + AAISP FTTC ~ 130/34 combined @ 3dB HG612's
Routed by pfSense on VMware ESX 6.7 on Ryzen 3 3200

Alex Atkin UK

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 2266
    • My Broadband History
Re: [Split From] G.fast with Green ISP
« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2020, 08:16:54 PM »

Yeah there is no getting away from the RAM requirements if you use VMs, which is presumably why containers have become so popular as it makes far more efficient use of resources.  Though granted, VMs can still dynamically adjust their RAM utilisation so its not entirely wasted.

But VM was definitely part of the reason I upgraded, then I gave up on running Win10 in a VM as I discovered a big problem, CPU resources.  Unless you dedicate cores to the VM alone, the latency in the VM causes issues in a lot of games, and that seemed HUGELY wasteful to lose those cores to a VM I hardly ran.
Logged
INTAKE (ECI) 2x Home Hub 5A OpenWrt:  1x Zen,1x Plusnet Hauwei B535-232: Voxi 4G Router: pfSense (i5-7200U) WiFi: Ubiquiti nanoHD
Thinkbroadband Quality Monitors & Zen Referral

dee.jay

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 468
Re: [Split From] G.fast with Green ISP
« Reply #28 on: January 31, 2020, 10:37:17 AM »

I often thought about running Linux and Windows inside as a VM, but this requires two video cards, or at least an onboard + discrete, then you have problem of IOMMU groups, USB sharing etc.

At this point, I'd just dual boot into Windows to just do Windows things, and then Linux for everything else.

Honestly I want to go 100% Linux, but, as I too game, and I often do things in between games, I'd just end up on Windows all the time. Maybe one day I will get round to it.
Logged
Sky + AAISP FTTC ~ 130/34 combined @ 3dB HG612's
Routed by pfSense on VMware ESX 6.7 on Ryzen 3 3200
Pages: 1 [2]
 

anything