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Author Topic: DLM not working as it should  (Read 1220 times)

NewtronStar

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Re: DLM not working as it should
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2019, 10:48:58 PM »

Tommy the only way I know to change your INPRein from 1.00 to 0.00 is to manually cap your Download sync on the modem until it retrains with a retransmission Low then remove the cap
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tommy45

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Re: DLM not working as it should
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2019, 11:28:52 PM »

I'm happy just getting the IP profile fixed, because it's either stuck to what it was prior to this sync i have now or set incorrectly to 88%  because although the sync has increased throughput hasn't like it should have done , Failing that a DLM reset may do the trick, but it's a long winded approach because 1st it would be interleave then wait until G.inp re enabled , and then the target margin decreasing  2 steps and there's no guarantee that it wouldn't re apply RETX hi
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kitz

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Re: DLM not working as it should
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2019, 01:32:09 AM »

The GEA test reports something different from the "sync speed" (actual net data rate) on a retransmission high profile,

Interesting, thanks.  Wasn't aware of that, not being fortunate enough to have Re-tx  and all those I've seen showed the sync.   
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ejs

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Re: DLM not working as it should
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2019, 08:01:48 PM »

How do we know that this 88% IP profile issue is incorrect rather than just something that we don't know about? Maybe Openreach have fiddled with the parameters of their retransmission profiles without informing us first.

Note that the "incorrect" IP profile tends to be about 96.8% of the "incorrect" sync speed. 70396/72727 = 96.79%

The Retransmission High profile probably includes a higher allowance for the amount of throughput expected to be lost by being used for retransmitting data.
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tommy45

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Re: DLM not working as it should
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2019, 10:14:34 PM »

How do we know that this 88% IP profile issue is incorrect rather than just something that we don't know about? Maybe Openreach have fiddled with the parameters of their retransmission profiles without informing us first.

Note that the "incorrect" IP profile tends to be about 96.8% of the "incorrect" sync speed. 70396/72727 = 96.79%

The Retransmission High profile probably includes a higher allowance for the amount of throughput expected to be lost by being used for retransmitting data.
IP profiles aren't anything to do with openreach  they are BT Wholesale, If i was on zen's GEA there would be no Ip profile, and i would be getting 72mbpsor more instead of 67-68
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tommy45

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Re: DLM not working as it should
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2019, 05:32:13 PM »

Zen have come back to be saying that they can see a lot of Re Transmits and suggested i plug into the test jack  to see if that changes anything, i do not have ant internal wiring  (extensions) and wouldn't be able to use the phone (no crappy adsl filter) I thought this was normal  ?

Retransmit Counters   4 days 14 hours 54 min 40 sec
rtx_tx:      504253      0
rtx_c:      1188              0
rtx_uc:      0              0
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tubaman

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Re: DLM not working as it should
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2019, 06:12:17 PM »

Zen have come back to be saying that they can see a lot of Re Transmits and suggested i plug into the test jack  to see if that changes anything, i do not have ant internal wiring  (extensions) and wouldn't be able to use the phone (no crappy adsl filter) I thought this was normal  ?

Retransmit Counters   4 days 14 hours 54 min 40 sec
rtx_tx:      504253      0
rtx_c:      1188              0
rtx_uc:      0              0

Aren't those re-transmits just G.Inp correctly doing its job?
I'm puzzled why Zen see those as a problem as the numbers don't look too bad to me.

As an example here are my re-transmit figures from 27 days of uptime:
                        Retransmit Counters                                   
rtx_tx:         66656664                0                                     
rtx_c:          30205986                0                                       
rtx_uc:         2678            0         

This equates to about 2.5M per day - rather worse that the 125K per day you are seeing!
 ???
« Last Edit: November 06, 2019, 06:15:39 PM by tubaman »
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tommy45

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Re: DLM not working as it should
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2019, 06:57:58 PM »

Aren't those re-transmits just G.Inp correctly doing its job?
I'm puzzled why Zen see those as a problem as the numbers don't look too bad to me.

As an example here are my re-transmit figures from 27 days of uptime:
                        Retransmit Counters                                   
rtx_tx:         66656664                0                                     
rtx_c:          30205986                0                                       
rtx_uc:         2678            0         

This equates to about 2.5M per day - rather worse that the 125K per day you are seeing!
 ???
That's what i thought the only ones i would be concerned about would be the U uncorrected , or the LEFTERS (though not sure what they are)  I have e-mailed them to re iterate that i don't see this as a (physical)line issue , but as a BT BRAS IP profile issue that hasn't been sending zen the correct snyc or IP profile for months , and it has currently  set it's self to 88% of the sync rate when it should be 91-92% , i don't see what is so hard to grasp
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Postal

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Re: DLM not working as it should
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2019, 08:40:59 PM »

I have exactly the same problem with a IDNet line and the 88.2% sync rate.  Openreach show a profile of 0.128M - 80M, 3dB, re-transmission high.  The daily rtx_tx is about 250,000 which does not seem excessive enough to cause the retransmission to be set to high.

Having looked at the downstream error figures, IDNet asked BTOR to carry out a DLM reset.  BTOR declined as the sync speed of 69.9Mbps was within spec so no action required.

This is annoying as the line is sync'd at 74951kbps but my downloads by speed test are all just over 60Mbps.  The BTW speed test shows a profile of 65.61 (which is surprisingly ~88% of the sync rate!) and would be consistent with the speed test results.

So we have BTOR reporting one profile which seems to have no relation to reported sync speeds at my router or reported error figures and BTW reporting a different profile that matches exactly the expected sync speed for a line with re-transmission high.  BTOR hold the controls so no chance of my profile being re-set to what the line will support and no lever my ISP can use to force a re-set.
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tommy45

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Re: DLM not working as it should
« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2019, 10:21:10 PM »

I can't even see the BTw IP profile on the BT speedtest site , it fails every time  with an undisclosed error or session time out but the sync and ip profile figures in the Zen portal are not correct And haven't been since earlier this year, Before RE TX was increased to High but throughput was ok The BTW Bras IP profile is the issue  and that is Wholesales problem not openreach
I don't particularly want DLM resetting  because it will take weeks to get back where i am,  1st stage is now Interleaved then Fast path , then G.inp  then lower Target SNR 2 steps from 6 to 4db , But test jack and speed tests aren't going to help , the kbd is a waste of space too  because it doesn't provide the DS sync speed just some spurious figure that seems very common 76.6mbps
« Last Edit: November 06, 2019, 10:31:46 PM by tommy45 »
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Postal

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Re: DLM not working as it should
« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2019, 11:47:55 PM »

I can't even see the BTw IP profile on the BT speedtest site , it fails every time  with an undisclosed error or session time out

Long shot, but you might get through to the IP profile running the test on a different browser.  I usually use Firefox but sometimes get the error message then try on another browser and manage to see the further information page.
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tommy45

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Re: DLM not working as it should
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2019, 04:15:54 PM »

I have tried Opera and IE11 as well as FF nothing doing
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tommy45

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Re: DLM not working as it should
« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2019, 04:35:11 PM »

Its a INP/RTX High issue which lowers your thoughput from 96% to 91 or 92%
Profile Name 0.128M-80M Downstream 4dB, Retransmission High

INP:      52.00      0.00
INPRein:   1.00      0.00
delay:      0      0
PER:      0.00      3.98
OR:      0.01      64.22
AgR:      80244.76   20063.5

John should be able to give you the low-downs on this subject.
Not sure the value you highlighted in red has  that effect here is an history sync with the same value  but the ip profile was 77.35 and throughput was 74mbps then until this year the inp figure increased by 2
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tommy45

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Re: DLM not working as it should
« Reply #28 on: November 07, 2019, 04:39:48 PM »

I can't even see the BTw IP profile on the BT speedtest site , it fails every time  with an undisclosed error or session time out but the sync and ip profile figures in the Zen portal are not correct And haven't been since earlier this year, Before RE TX was increased to High but throughput was ok The BTW Bras IP profile is the issue  and that is Wholesales problem not openreach
I don't particularly want DLM resetting  because it will take weeks to get back where i am,  1st stage is now Interleaved then Fast path , then G.inp  then lower Target SNR 2 steps from 6 to 4db , But test jack and speed tests aren't going to help , the kbd is a waste of space too  because it doesn't provide the DS sync speed just some spurious figure that seems very common 76.6mbps
just had a reply back from Zen support and here is what they are saying
Quote
Here is what we're seeing:

Sync Status: In Sync
Downstream Speed: 76.6 Mbps
Upstream Speed: 20.0 Mbps

Current BRAS Profile (CVLAN Rate): 72727

'0.128M-80M Downstream 4dB, Retransmission High - 0.128M-20M Upstream, Error Protection Off'

The BRAS profile is currently at 94% of the sync rate (72Mbps/76Mbps * 100 = 94%).

Potentially, the current BRAS profile is being calculated off the sync rate of 76Mbps. However, your updates are showing the router stats of ~80Mbps.

I'm guessing the sync rates being provided by the Openreach DSLAM to BT Wholesale are out of date and inaccurate (they are in fact timestamped: 2019-10-25T14:45:00 - this could however just be the last timestamp the DLM profile was updated).

If you are in sync higher than this, then this would potentially explain the reduced CVLAN rate.

I'm not 100% if this theory is correct, so could you please force a resync when you can and I'll check if the sync rates have changed at all on this side?

If we're still seeing exactly 76.6Mbps, and you're seeing 80Mbps then it looks like the stats are stuck (this could still be a red herring, as I'm not sure if this is just a front end thing and BT Wholesale's BRAS is actually pulling the correct data from elsewhere, but it's worth investigating if we can).

I have sent zen historical stats from before anything changed earlier this year, so they can see the sync rates and date and time of re sync's including  from before and after the time stamp of that KBD test
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j0hn

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Re: DLM not working as it should
« Reply #29 on: November 08, 2019, 11:08:15 AM »

Not sure the value you highlighted in red has  that effect here is an history sync with the same value  but the ip profile was 77.35 and throughput was 74mbps then until this year the inp figure increased by 2

The Bearer 0 INPRein value highlighted in red is a definite way to tell if a line is retx low/high.
0 = low
1 = high

Quote from: Zen
I'm guessing the sync rates being provided by the Openreach DSLAM to BT Wholesale are out of date and inaccurate (they are in fact timestamped: 2019-10-25T14:45:00 - this could however just be the last timestamp the DLM profile was updated).

I think they are quoting the DLM line profile timestamp which had nothing to do with the sync speed.
It's 13 days old in GEA tests.
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