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[Weaver]

Line 3 just went down.

The following times must be BST = UTC+1. From AA’s clueless.aa.net.uk :

Today 13:01:12    WLR3Test WLR3_CIDT_Test hws00556dat01:185788524: Fail FAULT - Dis One Leg In Network ServiceLevel:2.5, MainFaultLocation:CE, FaultReportAdvised:Y, AppointmentRequired:N, LineStability:, NetworkStability:, StabilityStatement:

Today 12:55:40    BT Test xDSL Copper Test:Pass Line test failed report fault to OR. Appointment advised.Pass Line test failed report fault to OR. Appointment advised. T008:FAULT - Dis One Leg In Network

[burakkucat]

At 12:55:40 hours, 20191019

BT Test, xDSL Copper Test:
Pass Line test failed report fault to OR.
Appointment advised.
Pass Line test failed report fault to OR.
Appointment advised.
T008:FAULT - Dis One Leg In Network

At 13:01:12 hours, 20191019

WLR3 Test WLR3_CIDT_Test hws00556dat01:185788524: Fail
FAULT - Dis One Leg In Network
ServiceLevel: 2.5
MainFaultLocation: CE
FaultReportAdvised: Y
AppointmentRequired: N
LineStability:
NetworkStability:
StabilityStatement:

I had to rearrange the output, as above, to be able to understand it.

One "problem" I can now see in the output is the potential confusion due to different interpretations that can be given to the word "pass" --

• The antonym of fail.
• The action "to hand", "to transfer", "to give", "to report", etc.

In the above, the word "pass" should be read as "give".

At least there is a definite statement of the observed fault -- "Dis One Leg In Network".

[Weaver]

Unfortunately AA didn’t get back to me. They are only open for a few hours on Saturday. I didn’t spot the problem until nearly half an hour after it had happened and so that didn’t help either, because that wasted some of the very small amount of time window remaining for reporting.

Can AA report faults to BT on Saturday ? If you have a 20 hour report-time-to-fix-time then is that during weekdays only?

And god knows what is supposed to happen if one has this 4 hour fix deal with BT (is that correct?).

Anyway, can’t report it to BTOR now until Monday morning.

[burakkucat]

As long as A&A are aware of the problem then I am sure they will "do the right thing" and ensure that Openreach are tasked appropriately.

It appears that your service level for line 3 is 2.5 (whatever that means). I have a vague feeling that kitz has documented the various service levels somewhere on the main site.

[Weaver]

I looked back at the old threads relating to BT service levels but I was frustrated by the fact that some links to BT Land are now dead. I think I remember seeing some mention of ‘the clock’ ticking over weekdays or all days and that got me confused. If a fault is reported on Friday late, does that mean that BT can take until the end of Monday to fix it in my case, anyone know?

—
AA reported faulty line 3 to BTOR this morning. I’m not sure when they’re coming out though.

Today 10:21:38   Tomorrow 10:21:38   Track fault and update customer PSTN Fault - NSY   stuart@a
Today 10:21:38   Tomorrow 10:21:38   Wait for supplier to confirm fault cleared PSTN Fault - NSY   stuart@a
Waiting on faultbtconfirm   Wait customer confirms fault closed PSTN Fault - NSY   stuart@a
Today 10:22:49      Track PSTN Fault 5-7-187270071594 Notes Field: **Line Stability:**Network Stability:**Test Outcome:Fail**MFL:CE**Term Statement:LINE TERMINATION NOT DETECTED**Line Signature:**Distance to Fault:1.27**Cable length:8.08**Test Start Time:2019-10-21T11:22:44**Test Stop Time:2019-10-21T11:22:44   bt
Today 10:22:49      Track PSTN Fault 5-7-187270071594 Informational Message: 4465 Please refer to the Notes field for the actual message   bt
Today 10:22:49      Track PSTN Fault 5-7-187270071594 Estimated Response Time: 2019-10-22T23:59:59   bt
Today 10:22:49      Track PSTN Fault 5-7-187270071594 Status: Open - Associating Info   bt
Today 10:22:04      Track PSTN Fault 5-7-187270071594 Informational Message: 4040 Notification only - Estimated Response Time.   bt
Today 10:22:04      Track PSTN Fault 5-7-187270071594 Informational Message: 3100 Trouble Report Accepted   bt
Today 10:22:04      Track PSTN Fault 5-7-187270071594 Estimated Response Time: 2019-10-22T23:59:59   bt
Today 10:22:04      Track PSTN Fault 5-7-187270071594 Status: Open - New   bt
Today 10:21:45      Track PSTN Fault 5-7-187270071594 Message Informational 9323 The asset care level 2.5 will be applied rather than the specified service level.   bt
Today 10:21:45      Track PSTN Fault 5-7-187270071594 Message Informational 3241 Notification Only - Trouble Report Creation Request is Pending   bt
Today 10:22:43      WLR3Test NSY hws00556dat02:186026322: Fail FAULT - Dis One Leg In Network ServiceLevel:2.5, MainFaultLocation:CE, FaultReportAdvised:Y, AppointmentRequired:N, LineStability:, NetworkStability:, StabilityStatement:   tobias@a
Today 10:21:23      WLR3Test NSY dys00556dat01:185933007: Fail FAULT - Dis One Leg In Network ServiceLevel:2.5, MainFaultLocation:CE, FaultReportAdvised:Y, AppointmentRequired:N, LineStability:, NetworkStability:, StabilityStatement:   stuart@a
Today 10:18:07      WLR3Test NSY cbs00556dat03:184626813: Premature Termination Further Diagnostics Required - raise Trouble Report with OR ServiceLevel:2.5, MainFaultLocation:DT, FaultReportAdvised:C, AppointmentRequired:N, LineStability:, NetworkStability:, StabilityStatement:   tobias@a
Today 10:15:23      WLR3Test NSY cbs00556dat01:185527856: Fail FAULT - Dis One Leg In Network ServiceLevel:2.5, MainFaultLocation:CE, FaultReportAdvised:Y, AppointmentRequired:N, LineStability:, NetworkStability:, StabilityStatement:   tobias@a
Saturday 13:01:12      WLR3Test WLR3_CIDT_Test hws00556dat01:185788524: Fail FAULT - Dis One Leg In Network ServiceLevel:2.5, MainFaultLocation:CE, FaultReportAdvised:Y, AppointmentRequired:N, LineStability:, NetworkStability:, StabilityStatement:   weaver
Saturday 12:54:59   Saturday 12:55:40   BT Test xDSL Copper Test:Pass Line test failed report fault to OR. Appointment advised.Pass Line test failed report fault to OR. Appointment advised. T008:FAULT - Dis One Leg In Network

I see "Distance to Fault:1.27**Cable length:8.08" - presumably km as there’s no way the cable is 8 miles long. I don’t understand why it’s 8.08 km long, is that the entire cable bundle going out to the south end of Heasta then, to the shore, which would be about that length by road? And have they reported a figure for the whole bundle not the copper specific to me, which will be I estimate very roughly ~7.3km long not 8.08km as it peels off first in the village and is a lot shorter, indeed 800m shorter sounds about right.

[Weaver]

Can anyone translate “Test Outcome:Fail**MFL:CE” for me?

[burakkucat]

For the CE I will refer you back to the earlier words, elsewhere, by Black Sheep --

FI - LN = Local Network or UG (Underground Network, more specifically) ..... CE = Customer Engineer (In other words a multi-skilled engineer as the remote test results can't fully determine if the fault is within the EU's curtilage, or in the OR network nearby the EU's curtilage. 

Thus the "MFL:CE" can be expanded to "Main Fault Location:Customer Engineer".

Knowing your location, and with a good idea of the local access network deployment, I suspect the fault to be anywhere between the top of the (lower) pole, at the roadside (visible from the "Weaving Shed"), and a footway joint box beside the A87, somewhere between Harapul and Broadford.

[Edited to correct the spelling of Harapul.]

[Weaver]

So distance to fault=1.27 (km?) would make that what, 1.27 km from Broadford then? Near Harapul rather than near Heasta?

[burakkucat]

Today 10:22:49      Track PSTN Fault 5-7-187270071594 Notes Field: **Line Stability:**Network Stability:**Test Outcome:Fail**MFL:CE**Term Statement:LINE TERMINATION NOT DETECTED**Line Signature:**Distance to Fault:1.27**Cable length:8.08**Test Start

Looking again at the above we can see that the expected response, the "Line Signature", is not obtained. This is emphasised with the capitalised "LINE TERMINATION NOT DETECTED" statement. The line signature is created by the series connected 1.8 micro Farad capacitor plus 470 k Ohm resistor shunt across the pair. With one leg of the pair disconnected then, clearly, the line signature will not be detectable.

All of the tests are really based on quite simple resistive fault location (RFL) detection, along with capacitive measurements, etc. Hence the results obtained are approximations. Including that of any "Distance to Fault" values. I shall assume that the approximate 1.27 km distance to the fault is the cable length out from the test-head in the Broadford exchange . . . putting it beside the A87, somewhere between Broadford and Harapul.

[Weaver]

From freemaptools, I make it that 1.27km equates to a path along the main road (0.97 km) then turning south into the Heasta road in Harapul and 1.27km would be a shortish way down the Heasta road toward the first cattle grid (which is right by the point where another small road branches off eastwards) but not quite that far. Janet tells me that there is a junction box/manhole there because a BTOR man was standing in a hole and there were four BT vans at that point.

Does that accord with your distance estimates roughly? (The exchange is right by the main church in the centre of Broadford, and next door to that on its west side there is a short residential road branching off the main road to the south - iirc called something deeply unimaginative like Rathad a’ Ghlinne or some such.

So anyway, this could be the rumoured cable replacement (?) which neighbours were told about. Maybe something went wrong as a result of that, if that happened. If that rumour is correct, then perhaps some planned engineering work might be listed on the web somewhere ? Or is cable replacement done with more or less zero down-time? I didn’t see any disruption to my lines at all on Friday nor Saturday.

[Weaver]

Engineer coming now it seems

Today 07:15:29      Track PSTN Fault 5-7-187270071594 Informational Message: 4058 Notification Only - Fault is assigned to Engineer. Fault status is now PONR.   bt
Today 07:15:29      Track PSTN Fault 5-7-187270071594 Estimated Response Time: 2019-10-22T23:59:59   bt
Today 07:15:29      Track PSTN Fault 5-7-187270071594 Status: Open - Past PONR

[Chrysalis]

I imagine your line log on aaisp is interesting reading weaver.

Mine is pretty much all green and purple.

[dee.jay]

Same here, entirely green. Purple lines were from when I ordered the line, 14 months ago.

[burakkucat]

From freemaptools, I make it that 1.27km equates to a path along the main road (0.97 km) then turning south into the Heasta road in Harapul and 1.27km would be a shortish way down the Heasta road toward the first cattle grid (which is right by the point where another small road branches off eastwards) but not quite that far. Janet tells me that there is a junction box/manhole there because a BTOR man was standing in a hole and there were four BT vans at that point.

Does that accord with your distance estimates roughly? (The exchange is right by the main church in the centre of Broadford, and next door to that on its west side there is a short residential road branching off the main road to the south - iirc called something deeply unimaginative like Rathad a’ Ghlinne or some such.

Remembering that all distances in Openreach / BTWholesale databases are approximately accurate then, yes, that location does seem to fit.

So anyway, this could be the rumoured cable replacement (?) which neighbours were told about. Maybe something went wrong as a result of that, if that happened. If that rumour is correct, then perhaps some planned engineering work might be listed on the web somewhere ? Or is cable replacement done with more or less zero down-time? I didn’t see any disruption to my lines at all on Friday nor Saturday.

With fancy three-way crimps, it is possible to patch in a new cable before the old cable is recovered. Hence no obvious loss of service (to those who have a service).

If, during that storm, there was an actual lightening ground-strike somewhere in the vicinity it could very easily have induced high voltages, with a significant current, in the pairs within the cable(s). I postulate that the inter-pair insulation is significantly less within a joint-closure than that in a length of a cable. I further postulate that the induced high voltage in the outer pairs of such a cable will attempt to dissipate to earth by arcing over between crimps, thus propagating the high voltage surge throughout all pairs in the cable.

We must also remember that current-day crimps are filled with petroleum-jelly . . . so a high voltage electrical arc through petroleum-jelly is most likely to result in localised burning (until all oxygen is consumed in the immediate vicinity). In your other thread you showed some details from the engineer's notes and in more than one place there were references such as --

". . . shown by soot / blackened wire / cable.The fault was fixed by clearing in joint."

I guess that some Harapulians and Heastians have had it much worse than yourself!   

[Weaver]

You’re right, I think your analysis of what’s going on in the cable is spot on, makes a lot of sense. The result of huge induced current must be a frightful mess. So it could be gel crimps that are burned out ?

The other thing I thought about is the D.C. resistance of the cable per metre is probably a lot less than the resistance of each joint, perhaps because the contact surface area is smaller and there’s a metal-metal contact, so it could be that a joint is a current bottleneck. So joule heating which is I²R therefore being proportional to R will be higher at the joint bottleneck. Does that sound right?

I wonder what state all the main insulation is in if the whole copper gets cooked?

Makes me think: what has possibly happened to my NTE5s? Wonder if they got cooked too, so that there might have been a deleterious effect on them. The performance looks excellent now so I have nothing to complain about and no obvious reason why I need to replace master sockets. But it makes me wonder.