Kitz ADSL Broadband Information
adsl spacer  
Support this site
Home Broadband ISPs Tech Routers Wiki Forum
 
     
   Compare ISP   Rate your ISP
   Glossary   Glossary
 
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Pages: 1 [2]

Author Topic: Upgrades for 700,000 BT customers and BT Halo converged services to launch  (Read 2081 times)

CarlT

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1697
  • Software Defined WAN deployment engineer
Re: Upgrades for 700,000 BT customers and BT Halo converged services to launch
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2020, 06:25:15 PM »

Openreach have no ADSL kit in the exchange.
Logged
WiFi: Nighthawk® AX12 RAX120
Routing: pfSense VM
Switching: Mikrotik 2* CRS305-1G-4S-IN, 1 * CRS309-1G-8S+; various cheap and cheerful TP-Link/Netgear
Exchange: Wakefield
ISP: BT Full Fibre 900. Zen Full Fibre 900.

Alex Atkin UK

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1854
    • My Broadband History
Re: Upgrades for 700,000 BT customers and BT Halo converged services to launch
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2020, 06:35:02 PM »

   There is certainly no drawback to someone getting the free upgrade so long as the pricing remains consistent with the old adsl service.  The drawback is that those already on FTTC can see quite significant increases in cross-talk and hence speed drops as the migration proceeds.  It really is not good for everyone.  If the openreach aim is to remove their adsl kit from the exchange  I can understand it, otherwise I can't see a benefit.

I wonder though, does a line in-sync but not being actively used, cause much crosstalk?  Its obviously not neutral with rogue probes and keep-alive messages, but it shouldn't be a huge crosstalker surely?
Logged
INTAKE (ECI) Zen: Home Hub 5A OpenWrt Plusnet: VMG-3925-B10B Three 4G: Hauwei B535-232 Router: pfSense (i5-7200U) WiFi: Ubiquiti nanoHD
Thinkbroadband Quality Monitors

les-70

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1254
Re: Upgrades for 700,000 BT customers and BT Halo converged services to launch
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2020, 06:38:44 PM »

  I hope it is not an BT/Openreach motive but thinking over motives --- the cross-talk on my line has slowly been reducing the error rates as well as the speed.  When on 80/20 I had average of about 30-40 ES per hour with bad ses some days.  At 72Mb/s down due to cross-talk the error rate was about 20ES per hour. at 68Mb/s downstream it was about 12 per hour  and at 65Mb/s about 10 per hour.   I can't say just what the recent speed drops have done as it is too soon.  It does however look like the trend is continuing. 

   On my line this seems almost the same impact on errors as capping the speed!  Maybe the cross-talk itself is not much of a source of ES but instead  raises the effective snrm protection against the noise.  i.e with enough cross-talk the noise is buried in the crosstalk. The thought has cheered me up just a little.  If other see this maybe BT/Openreach judge the migration to FTTC as a good thing due to the  increase in line stabilties!!

 @Alex Atkin  My main cross talk from next door seems the same idle or active.  Sync seems all that needed.

  p.s. I am never sure who owns which bit of kit when comes to BT/openreach. I will leave that to experts! I guess the non LLU  adsl kit is BT wholesale.
Logged

RealAleMadrid

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 159
Re: Upgrades for 700,000 BT customers and BT Halo converged services to launch
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2020, 07:31:25 PM »

I agree with Les-70, even a line in sync with no user data transfer causes just as much crosstalk as a busy line. There's a lot of background activity even on an idle line.

@ Les-70 I sympathise with your crosstalk and error problems, I am astounded that my line which must be 400+ metres from the cabinet syncs at 76.989Mbps at 3dB snrm. I have just looked at the stats and from link time over 43 days ago the HG612 modem is reporting no errors apart from FECs. If there is a local area power cut the modem will resync at 80/20 with a 2dB margin again with no errors reported.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2020, 08:46:16 PM by RealAleMadrid »
Logged

tiffy

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 942
Re: Upgrades for 700,000 BT customers and BT Halo converged services to launch
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2020, 07:59:36 PM »

Surely the bi-product of any potential mass migration from ADSL2, 2+ to VDSL2, FTTC must result in increased cross-talk within the cabinet to premises copper infrastructure circuits, many forum patrons can testify that this is already the case as their DSLAM's population has increased.

It's such a pity that BT decided not to roll out vectoring beyond a very limited basis to a very few users, a technology that is proven to considerably reduce cross-talk within the copper circuits.
The Irish telecom provider, Eircom, has very successfully deployed vectoring throughout it's exclusive Huawei estate since 2014.
Not sure if the UK ECI DSLAM's directly support vectoring (with suitable HW & SW upgrades as per Huawei cabinets) perhaps this was a factor in BT not proceeding with the vectoring roll out.
Would the scenario have perhaps produced a similar situation to the G.Inp (re-transmission) fiasco on ECI cabinets ? 

My more sceptical side is more inclined to believe that BT decided to invest in G.Fast as this was a technology which would produce more chargeable returns whereas the cost of vectoring upgrades was something that could not be as easily recouped by charging the end users.

G.Fast by virtue of it's line length limitations was only ever going to be a viable option and of benefit to a very small percentage of BB customers, the abysmal take-up of the product certainly reflected this very obvious short coming as did the apparent change of direction by BT away from G.Fast roll out towards FTTP.

Very much stating the obvious I know, vectoring would have provided a benefit to virtually all consumers on FTTC, VDSL service wheras G.Fast was never going to achieve any benefits for the vast majority of users.
Without vectoring, which I don't think is ever likely to happen now, I can't see any way that cross-talk will not increase it's impact on all FTTC subscribers as the migration away from ADSL to VDSL increases.



Logged
Zen 40/10 - DSLStats/RPi3B - ZyXEL VMG1312-B10A Modem/VMG-3925-B10B Router Huawei Cab

Alex Atkin UK

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1854
    • My Broadband History
Re: Upgrades for 700,000 BT customers and BT Halo converged services to launch
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2020, 08:48:20 PM »

Openreach have no ADSL kit in the exchange.

Is the DSLAM considered property of BT Wholesale or am I missing something?
Logged
INTAKE (ECI) Zen: Home Hub 5A OpenWrt Plusnet: VMG-3925-B10B Three 4G: Hauwei B535-232 Router: pfSense (i5-7200U) WiFi: Ubiquiti nanoHD
Thinkbroadband Quality Monitors

Chrysalis

  • Content Team
  • Addicted Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 6353
Re: Upgrades for 700,000 BT customers and BT Halo converged services to launch
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2020, 09:50:02 PM »

If there is lots of adsl tones power cutback happening, then when that is disabled you get your lost sync speed back with more on top?
Logged
AAISP - Billion 8800NL bridge & PFSense BOX running PFSense 2.4 - ECI Cab - LINE STATISTICS CLICK HERE

Alex Atkin UK

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1854
    • My Broadband History
Re: Upgrades for 700,000 BT customers and BT Halo converged services to launch
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2020, 10:14:23 PM »

If there is lots of adsl tones power cutback happening, then when that is disabled you get your lost sync speed back with more on top?

You'd think so, but I'd suspect you won't get the same (or more) back without an actual band plan change which would need no ADSL passing through that PCP at all.  Even then, unless they outright block new ADSL orders then they can't really do that.
Logged
INTAKE (ECI) Zen: Home Hub 5A OpenWrt Plusnet: VMG-3925-B10B Three 4G: Hauwei B535-232 Router: pfSense (i5-7200U) WiFi: Ubiquiti nanoHD
Thinkbroadband Quality Monitors

Bowdon

  • Content Team
  • Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2149
Re: Upgrades for 700,000 BT customers and BT Halo converged services to launch
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2020, 11:14:11 PM »

When my next door neighbour moved in and they decided to get Sky FTTC my sync dropped from 66Mbps to 54Mbps. The previous neighbour was an old guy who I think had virgin media for the tv.

FTTC is a victim of its own success.

What would be required to install vectoring in to cabinets?

Am I right in thinking they installed vectoring in northern ireland?
Logged
BT Infinity 2 - Smart Hub 6 - ECI Cab

tiffy

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 942
Re: Upgrades for 700,000 BT customers and BT Halo converged services to launch
« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2020, 08:38:09 AM »

Quote
Am I right in thinking they installed vectoring in northern ireland?

No, NI being (still) part of the UK it is the same BT infrastructure.
We are lucky in that the FTTC hardware estate is I believe exclusively Huawei, have never seen an ECI DSLAM cabinet anywhere in NI.

Quote
What would be required to install vectoring in to cabinets?

In Huawei cabinets, hardware and software upgrades I believe.
Not sure if ECI cabinets are/require upgrading/are capable of vectoring support, I'am sure someone will advise.
Logged
Zen 40/10 - DSLStats/RPi3B - ZyXEL VMG1312-B10A Modem/VMG-3925-B10B Router Huawei Cab
Pages: 1 [2]