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Author Topic: Please help me with stats  (Read 3747 times)

neil

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Re: Please help me with stats
« Reply #30 on: October 21, 2019, 08:35:20 AM »

Considering from what I have seen so far in that the graphs can be so variable, then there is a good chance that your connection is suffering from REIN. :/

It's not a good idea to turn off bitswap - especially if your line is experiencing noise.
Bitswap allows the modem to reallocate and reuse spare SNR in other tones during periods of noise burst.

It may also be a good idea to let that port rest for a while..   That blip like swing between 28- 32dB on your downstream SNRM band can occur if there has been some sort of power outage/remote disconnect/brown out.   

We usually recommend that you do a full power down of your modem and leave it for a short while before reconnecting.
I suspect that there is still some sort of EMI/RFI causing problems....  but I am also a bit concerned at what effect turning off bitswap could also be having on the line & graphing.    It could possibly be why you don't now have anything showing in the U2 band.
i turned off bitswap because i was facing pkt loss all the time now it is every now and then
« Last Edit: October 21, 2019, 08:37:53 AM by neil »
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Weaver

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Re: Please help me with stats
« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2019, 09:11:52 PM »

Neil, I donít know the details of your modem, but in general I would say that turning off bitswap is a terrible idea and would warn against it. You might have strong evidence to the contrary of course. I think one case where bitswap might just possibly become a problem is in a modem which doesnít feature Ďmonitored tonesí capability. I think my own DLink DSL-320B-Z1 modems which I used last year may fall into that category, and my ISP, Andrews and Arnold, used to ship the DLink modems with bitswap off (the default), which I wrongly or rightly used to moan about.
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neil

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Re: Please help me with stats
« Reply #32 on: October 27, 2019, 03:36:18 AM »

Neil, I donít know the details of your modem, but in general I would say that turning off bitswap is a terrible idea and would warn against it. You might have strong evidence to the contrary of course. I think one case where bitswap might just possibly become a problem is in a modem which doesnít feature Ďmonitored tonesí capability. I think my own DLink DSL-320B-Z1 modems which I used last year may fall into that category, and my ISP, Andrews and Arnold, used to ship the DLink modems with bitswap off (the default), which I wrongly or rightly used to moan about.
but i was facing pktloss issues in games i will try one more time with bitswap ON
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Weaver

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Re: Please help me with stats
« Reply #33 on: November 03, 2019, 01:18:31 PM »

Neil, your linking of bitswap with other issues doesnít make any sense. :-) Bitswap is a standard feature of DSL and everyone uses it all the time as it improves performance and reliability. (Cheapo modems that donít have Ďmonitored tonesí capability present more of a dilemma potentially.)

If you are getting packet loss then there are a number of reasons: it could be due to overloading the link by sending at a rate that is too high; it could be due to packet corruption because the sync rate is too high or the SNRM is too low; or it could be congestion in the network or a rubbish ISP; finally it could be a natural and essential feature of the way that routers behave and which is used by TCP. When there is congestion in the network or when a sender is just sending too fast fir a bottleneck somewhere the router at the bottleneck will start to drop packets to signal the congestion and tell the TCP sender to slow down. If the overload is extreme there may be nowhere to store a large number of incoming packets or it may be undesirable to build up a large queue of traffic which forms a backlog that might never get cleared and then there is no choice but to drop sockets. These forms of packet loss donít indicate anything other than natural behaviour. You have to understand what is happening and why and We donít fiddle with modems to try and fix it assuming the modem is in some way at fault.

If you are getting packet loss it means getting a clued up ISP to investigate. If your ISP doesnít understand then need to swap out the ISP for one with clue. :-)

Hope this helps, even if only a little. Ask if anything unclear.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2019, 01:20:32 PM by Weaver »
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neil

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Re: Please help me with stats
« Reply #34 on: November 04, 2019, 06:41:11 AM »

Neil, your linking of bitswap with other issues doesnít make any sense. :-) Bitswap is a standard feature of DSL and everyone uses it all the time as it improves performance and reliability. (Cheapo modems that donít have Ďmonitored tonesí capability present more of a dilemma potentially.)

If you are getting packet loss then there are a number of reasons: it could be due to overloading the link by sending at a rate that is too high; it could be due to packet corruption because the sync rate is too high or the SNRM is too low; or it could be congestion in the network or a rubbish ISP; finally it could be a natural and essential feature of the way that routers behave and which is used by TCP. When there is congestion in the network or when a sender is just sending too fast fir a bottleneck somewhere the router at the bottleneck will start to drop packets to signal the congestion and tell the TCP sender to slow down. If the overload is extreme there may be nowhere to store a large number of incoming packets or it may be undesirable to build up a large queue of traffic which forms a backlog that might never get cleared and then there is no choice but to drop sockets. These forms of packet loss donít indicate anything other than natural behaviour. You have to understand what is happening and why and We donít fiddle with modems to try and fix it assuming the modem is in some way at fault.

If you are getting packet loss it means getting a clued up ISP to investigate. If your ISP doesnít understand then need to swap out the ISP for one with clue. :-)

Hope this helps, even if only a little. Ask if anything unclear.
i have turned on the bitswap let see i get pkt drops or not
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Weaver

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Re: Please help me with stats
« Reply #35 on: November 04, 2019, 10:44:04 AM »

My fault for not having read the earlier posts - my apologies to all.

Neil, Kitz has said that in her opinion you are suffering from interference, so do not fiddle with bitswap as (a) itís not relevant and (b) turning off bitswap will adversely affect performance- you, like everyone else, need bitswap. We all need this basic DSL feature - itís included for a good reason.

Kitz said that the graphs are changing from one point in time to another. This variation is indeed as she says a defining characteristic of rf interference or some kinds of crosstalk - especially if other electrical equipment or other usersí devices are being switched in and off for some periods of time.
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neil

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Re: Please help me with stats
« Reply #36 on: November 05, 2019, 11:11:29 AM »

My fault for not having read the earlier posts - my apologies to all.

Neil, Kitz has said that in her opinion you are suffering from interference, so do not fiddle with bitswap as (a) itís not relevant and (b) turning off bitswap will adversely affect performance- you, like everyone else, need bitswap. We all need this basic DSL feature - itís included for a good reason.

Kitz said that the graphs are changing from one point in time to another. This variation is indeed as she says a defining characteristic of rf interference or some kinds of crosstalk - especially if other electrical equipment or other usersí devices are being switched in and off for some periods of time.

ok i have turned back on the bitswap and how i can stop this interference and cross talk?
« Last Edit: November 06, 2019, 06:16:44 AM by neil »
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kitz

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Re: Please help me with stats
« Reply #37 on: November 05, 2019, 06:03:43 PM »


There isn't anything you can do about crosstalk as it occurs to some extent or other on most lines.    However that said, it doesn't look like crosstalk.

Those spikes are not typical of crosstalk which usually is more of a shallow bowl effect.  Spikes are usually RFI or EMI type noise.

Spikes like that are much more likely to be due to radio stations transmitted on those frequencies, or something else that transmits or otherwise generates interference on a narrow band around the frequencies of those spikes. Crosstalk does not tend to strongly affect certain isolated frequencies, crosstalk tends to be spread over the whole frequency range.

Considering from what I have seen so far in that the graphs can be so variable, then there is a good chance that your connection is suffering from REIN. :/

It's not a good idea to turn off bitswap - especially if your line is experiencing noise.
Bitswap allows the modem to reallocate and reuse spare SNR in other tones during periods of noise burst.

The SNRM graph you provided was constantly jittering between 28 and 32 dB indicating the presence of some sort of RFI or EMI background type noise.
You hlog graph was good indicating no problems with the physical line itself.
The QLN graph showed several spikes at certain frequencies - based on the affected frequencies I would guess it if more likely to be EMI (Electro Magnetic Interference) as opposed to RFI (Radio Frequency Interference).

The above factors led me to believe you are suffering from some sort of REIN type noise.   Unfortunately REIN is difficult to track down as it can come from various sources such as faulty electrical equipment.   Common culprits tend to be TV/Microwave/Stereos/Treadmills/Faulty street lights/ Central Heating pumps.

I suggest you have a read of this page.
Repetitive Electrical Impulse Noise (REIN).


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ejs

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Re: Please help me with stats
« Reply #38 on: November 05, 2019, 07:50:58 PM »

I think there may well be some noise present, as there will be for every line, but it is not the problem. There were zero ES in the first two sets of stats, and only 2 ES in the third set of stats with interleaving off. I don't know how much time those stats covered, so we really need to see some stats and know how much time they cover. But I'm guessing that the number of Errored Seconds per day will be tiny.
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Weaver

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Re: Please help me with stats
« Reply #39 on: November 10, 2019, 09:01:00 AM »

Following on from what Kitz said, if you are lucky, sometimes timing can be a clue ; if interference changes at certain times of day then that helps with the guesswork as to what the source might be. Central heating and street lights go on and off and do so at certain fixed times, although central heating might instead go / off according to a thermostat as well as being controlled by a timer of course, and a user might press a button to control it, eg "+1 hour". I have a possible weird source of interference which, if the understanding is correct, goes on and off in a pretty regular pattern every day, but I havenít been able to make sense of the meaning behind the times, it only affects one of my four dsl lines, and only the upstream, while two other lines are completely unaffected and one is much less affected but not with the same timing pattern; rather with no regular pattern at all.
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neil

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Re: Please help me with stats
« Reply #40 on: November 12, 2019, 03:52:15 AM »

Following on from what Kitz said, if you are lucky, sometimes timing can be a clue ; if interference changes at certain times of day then that helps with the guesswork as to what the source might be. Central heating and street lights go on and off and do so at certain fixed times, although central heating might instead go / off according to a thermostat as well as being controlled by a timer of course, and a user might press a button to control it, eg "+1 hour". I have a possible weird source of interference which, if the understanding is correct, goes on and off in a pretty regular pattern every day, but I havenít been able to make sense of the meaning behind the times, it only affects one of my four dsl lines, and only the upstream, while two other lines are completely unaffected and one is much less affected but not with the same timing pattern; rather with no regular pattern at all.

we dont have central heating systems here
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Weaver

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Re: Please help me with stats
« Reply #41 on: November 12, 2019, 08:23:49 AM »

Need to include neighboursí whose central heating is are near the dsl cable, as opposed to those near your house only.
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dorzb

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Re: Please help me with stats
« Reply #42 on: November 12, 2019, 09:16:07 AM »

Need to include neighboursí whose central heating is are near the dsl cable, as opposed to those near your house only.

Quote
Pakistan recorded one of the highest temperatures in the world Ė 53.5 įC (128.3 įF) Ė on 26 May 2010

I don't think they need central heating there...
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Postal

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Re: Please help me with stats
« Reply #43 on: November 12, 2019, 11:51:58 AM »

I don't think they need central heating there...

No, but they might have air-conditioning on a time switch.
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neil

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Re: Please help me with stats
« Reply #44 on: November 12, 2019, 07:58:58 PM »

I don't think they need central heating there...
yes it is quite hot in summer here now in November temp right now according to weather app is 19C
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