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Author Topic: BT to Propose Full Fibre Move and Copper Switch Off by 2027  (Read 3510 times)

Bowdon

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BT to Propose Full Fibre Move and Copper Switch Off by 2027
« on: September 19, 2019, 11:00:22 AM »

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2019/09/bt-to-propose-full-fibre-move-and-copper-switch-off-by-2027.html

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Reports this morning claim that BT (Openreach) are in “secret” negotiations with the government and UK ISPs about a new six point plan, which could see the last of their old copper phone lines being switched off by 2027 and replaced by “full fibre” (FTTP) broadband. Provided everybody agrees of course.

It's good to see that BT/OR have now changed their mind set fully about full fibre. 2027 isn't that far away really, and in the meantime we all have a chance to get a modern connection between now and then.

I don't really see why everybody as to agree. It's happening. When all the enforcement groups i.e. the government, ofcom etc are all pushing this way, it would be a very difficult case to make that as an isp you are holding up the future. I'm sure the bad pr generated from such a case would be bad for business.

The most valuable part about full fibre is its immune from many of the problems that blight our connections these days. It will be also easier to fix a problem because the line can't half work, its on or its off, and anything in between produces stats that the isp can look at. So no more arguing on the phone to often far off places that your line as gone bad, because now they will be able to see stats and directly compare them.
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dee.jay

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Re: BT to Propose Full Fibre Move and Copper Switch Off by 2027
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2019, 11:57:40 AM »

Excellent news indeed.
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gt94sss2

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Re: BT to Propose Full Fibre Move and Copper Switch Off by 2027
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2019, 12:10:53 PM »

I don't really see why everybody as to agree. It's happening. When all the enforcement groups i.e. the government, ofcom etc are all pushing this way, it would be a very difficult case to make that as an isp you are holding up the future. I'm sure the bad pr generated from such a case would be bad for business.

Without agreement, you risk long drawn out court cases arguing that such a policy is noncompetitive and ruins the investment plans of other firms...

Most consumers or businesses don't pay attention to why something has been delayed or who may be responsible..
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ejs

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Re: BT to Propose Full Fibre Move and Copper Switch Off by 2027
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2019, 06:13:57 PM »

So no more arguing on the phone to often far off places that your line as gone bad, because now they will be able to see stats and directly compare them.

I'm pretty confident that any competent ISP could look at the performance of all their ADSL and FTTC lines and identify the poorly performing ones. The fact that ISPs don't do this is not due to the unavailability of the data - they have plenty of stats available with the existing technologies.
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Weaver

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Re: BT to Propose Full Fibre Move and Copper Switch Off by 2027
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2019, 08:03:38 PM »

Hardly dare even hope. (See other thread re this)

Do we really believe this ?
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ejs

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Re: BT to Propose Full Fibre Move and Copper Switch Off by 2027
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2019, 08:36:19 PM »

The other take on the same news was:

Has Sky News conflated WLR switch off plans with copper replacement plans?
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We may be wrong but to us the Sky News coverage on secret talks to turn off copper everywhere in the UK in 2027 read very like a journalist at Sky has seen some of the WLR switch off plans (scheduled for 2025) or heard of them third hand and is conflating this with other talks around how the Governments 100% full fibre plans for 2025 can be reached.

Perhaps wait for some official announcement.
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burakkucat

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Re: BT to Propose Full Fibre Move and Copper Switch Off by 2027
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2019, 08:39:57 PM »

Perhaps wait for some official announcement.

b*cat nods in agreement.

As I currently "see things" the speculation is . . . er . . . unhelpful, time-wasting, speculation.  ::)
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licquorice

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Re: BT to Propose Full Fibre Move and Copper Switch Off by 2027
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2019, 09:56:57 PM »

There's more chance of seeing my avatar go past your window than demise of copper by 2027
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Ronski

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Re: BT to Propose Full Fibre Move and Copper Switch Off by 2027
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2019, 10:49:22 PM »

So no more arguing on the phone to often far off places that your line as gone bad, because now they will be able to see stats and directly compare them.

You think they'd be able to see the stats, but if my experience very recently with Virgin Media is anything to go by it won't change a thing (they couldn't see that my fibre line was dropping many times a day, although I know they had the information available). All the time you have first tier support that haven't a clue about what they are asking you, and what the answers actually mean when you do get a fault you'll spends hours on the phone trying to explain the fault to someone who doesn't even know what the lights on the front of their own router mean. And when you ask to speak to someone who does, they transfer you to a totally different department that's nothing to do with faults :wall: :wall: :wall:

Anyway, great news on them trying to get rid of copper.
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: BT to Propose Full Fibre Move and Copper Switch Off by 2027
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2019, 11:29:46 PM »

There's more chance of seeing my avatar go past your window than demise of copper by 2027

Completely agree, even though I do see some very odd things going past my windows these days.  ::)

Imagine what would become of those rural users who depend upon a horrible, slow, bit of copper because FTTP is not an economically viable alternative.  Or those who live in blocks of flats, served with gigabit services to the locality by the likes of Hyperoptic, but delivered to their home via copper?    Would they be told they can no longer have any service at all, just to satisfy a gimmicky “copper switch off”  headline?   And what then, would they be fobbed off with an even worse mobile service?
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CarlT

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Re: BT to Propose Full Fibre Move and Copper Switch Off by 2027
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2019, 11:53:57 PM »

Do we really believe this ?

No. Rolling it out across the country in that timeframe is difficult enough let alone the millions of installs a year.

This is likely the demise of POTS.
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Weaver

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Re: BT to Propose Full Fibre Move and Copper Switch Off by 2027
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2019, 01:03:59 AM »

@7LM Good point. Those of us who are not worthy need to lean on the politicians who are round our way to ensure we are protected.
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Bowdon

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Re: BT to Propose Full Fibre Move and Copper Switch Off by 2027
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2019, 11:23:42 AM »

You think they'd be able to see the stats, but if my experience very recently with Virgin Media is anything to go by it won't change a thing (they couldn't see that my fibre line was dropping many times a day, although I know they had the information available). All the time you have first tier support that haven't a clue about what they are asking you, and what the answers actually mean when you do get a fault you'll spends hours on the phone trying to explain the fault to someone who doesn't even know what the lights on the front of their own router mean. And when you ask to speak to someone who does, they transfer you to a totally different department that's nothing to do with faults :wall: :wall: :wall:

It amazes me that in 2019 that there are people hired by ISP's that haven't a clue what they are talking about. This sort of behaviour I could accept in the early 2000's as technology expanded out of the realm of the enthusiast to the masses. It was understandable that it was new information back then. But these days anyone born in the mid-90s have literally grown up with technology and routers. To have no clue about routers, and lets say the home hubs or VM's offering is pure ignorance. Don't these ISP's check people have the required knowledge before they hire them? My favourite is when complaining that my line was having problems I told if my wifi worked then everything was ok  ::)

Don't these CEO's or those slightly lower down watch any feedback of people online?

I guess with a full fibre line if it faults and goes down the most benign question they can ask is "can you turn it off and on again?"  ;D
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Ronski

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Re: BT to Propose Full Fibre Move and Copper Switch Off by 2027
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2019, 01:24:42 PM »

Many people have no comprehension of how it works, every time mine stopped working my 17 year old daughter complained the WiFi had stopped working again, even though I told her every time it was the broadband. Once to prove the WiFi was OK I told her to type in 192.168.0.12, she wasn't impressed when the Web interface of our printer appeared on her phone, but it proved the WiFi was working ;D

Talking to the engineer that came he said a lot of reported faults are just poor WiFi reception, which is why more ISPs are starting to have mesh systems available.
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Weaver

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Re: BT to Propose Full Fibre Move and Copper Switch Off by 2027
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2019, 09:37:52 PM »

My wife gets confused by this wireless lan vs internet access thing when things go wrong.

Unfortunately apple devices stick with wireless lan even when the internet connection from the router via the main pipe, dsl say, has gone down, and they should switch to 4G if only they knew and had the clue. I wish there was an implementation of a system using a suitable protocol available to link routers to iOS boxes and control routing, there are of course several routing protocol candidates.

Because when the internet access link goes down the seductive wireless lan still keeps the iOS boxes faithful to wireless I have now got 3G failover going in the router. (Have failed to work out how to set 4G NIC up.) this means that wireless lans are not so evil, luring iOS devices when those devices should switch to 4G.

(I don’t know if ther’s Any way if telling devices to switch default gateway?)
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