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Author Topic: Future of ADSL EO lines  (Read 1677 times)

Weaver

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Future of ADSL EO lines
« on: September 12, 2019, 09:31:52 AM »

What do you think the future holds for those of us who do not have FTTC or FTTP, and are using ADSL on EO lines?

I would like to keep it to information and opinions about wired successor technologies, as opposed to prescriptive advice such as ‘switch to 5G’. My question isn’t personal. It’s rather about where do you see wired internet access going for the likes of me in general; those not caught up in the FTTx rollout.
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dee.jay

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Re: Future of ADSL EO lines
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2019, 01:06:45 PM »

Well, if we are committed to turning off all copper based PSTN, that also implies ADSL one day will be shutdown, as will FTTC, it'll all be FTTP?

Alternatives to that, no sure, 5G? But I'm sceptical. Not sure how it can be a replacement for those of us who consume a lot of bandwidth because cell carriers don't typically offer "unlimited" bandwidths.
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: Future of ADSL EO lines
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2019, 02:13:36 PM »

Well, if we are committed to turning off all copper based PSTN, that also implies ADSL one day will be shutdown, as will FTTC, it'll all be FTTP?

Alternatives to that, no sure, 5G? But I'm sceptical. Not sure how it can be a replacement for those of us who consume a lot of bandwidth because cell carriers don't typically offer "unlimited" bandwidths.

That seems to be changing https://www.4g.co.uk/news/unlimited-data/ although your performance will vary by area.
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Weaver

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Re: Future of ADSL EO lines
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2019, 04:11:55 PM »

I’d specifically like to make 4G / 5G off-topic and let that important discussion go into a worthy but different thread.

Do you see an end to ADSL and EO lines in x years? Will it drag on forever ? Like analogue tv did, and like ridiculous things such as fax are doing. If it is replaced how will it get done - practically and politically?

I’m in Scotland and there may have been various claims made about service - I can’t remember. But hand-waving is one thing and making something actually happen is another. And then there’s always the strategy of "oh, yes, but I actually meant to say ‘apart from the really difficult bits’ obviously; they’re too hard and not important anyway"
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PhilipD

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Re: Future of ADSL EO lines
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2019, 04:59:26 PM »

Hi

Quote
Do you see an end to ADSL and EO lines in x years?

The simple answer of course is Yes.  We already know this as BT Openreach have said it, they want rid of copper, and will sell off the land/exchange buildings as soon as they are decommissioned.

Quote
Will it drag on forever ?

The simple answer is No, it will not drag on forever.

Quote
If it is replaced how will it get done - practically and politically?

Ultimately you get told to migrate to something else or get cut off.  If there is no other service available to you the rules of USO would kick in, whatever they are at that point in time.

Don't forget analogue TV did get turned off.

Fax machines, well no one has said they can't be used anymore, and they would still work post PSTN via an ATA device. :-)

Regards

Phil
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j0hn

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Re: Future of ADSL EO lines
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2019, 08:21:13 PM »

What do you think the future holds for those of us who do not have FTTC or FTTP, and are using ADSL on EO lines?

Your ADSL isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

If you're asking what's next if not FTTP/FTTC then under the USO it's 4G.

Very little publicly funded FTTC now with a preference for FTTP but the most remote areas will have a long wait or not get it at all.

When they do get round to turning off copper xDSL services if they haven't yet rolled out FTTP to you then it likely need to be a wireless solution of some kind.
Either 4G, fixed wireless or satellite.
LEO satellites sound promising.
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j0hn

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Re: Future of ADSL EO lines
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2019, 08:21:36 PM »

Well, if we are committed to turning off all copper based PSTN, that also implies ADSL one day will be shutdown, as will FTTC.

That's confusing 2 different things though.

xDSL services will still be working and actively sold (probably for many years) after the PSTN switch off.

SOGEA (aka naked DSL) is about to hit the market with either no voice service or ISP provided VOIP.

OpenReach are only just starting to trial an FTTP only exchange in Salisbury.
It will take years to get to the point where they can issue a stop sell on copper services on that 1 exchange, and probably years more to migrate all existing customers over to FTTP.

There's no copper switch off happening this decade imo. PSTN is a different thing.
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dee.jay

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Re: Future of ADSL EO lines
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2019, 07:46:33 AM »

I'm really not. PSTN is being switched off, as are all copper lines. You are right, this decade, it's for 2025.
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PhilipD

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Re: Future of ADSL EO lines
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2019, 09:56:46 AM »

Hi

xDSL services will still be working and actively sold (probably for many years) after the PSTN switch off.

ADSL will be turned off first and not that far in the future, and probably on an exchange by exchange basis.  VDSL/G.Fast will be available for a longer time, but the emphasis will be to turn-off ADSL ASAP, transferring those customers instead to VDSL. If an exchange only line, it will be converted.  A lot of exchanges don't have anything to do with VDSL/G.Fast in their area as that fibre often goes back somewhere else, so once PSTN is off, it's not viable to just keep an exchange open if it is only for an ever smaller percentage of ADSL customers.  Openreach will want to get the exchange closed and sell the land/building to recoup some money from their now unused assets.

Of course a lot depends on how the trial exchange areas go with their copper switch off, i.e. Salisbury.  I think Openreach underestimate the work involved to connect people up to FTTP, it's one thing "passing" premises, but an entirely another thing to connect them up.  A friend has been waiting 3 months for their native FTTP to be connected, now waiting for ducts to be unblocked, and this is a cul-de-sac with no issues with road closures.  Several orders have gone in on the same street and not a single person as been connected in 12 weeks. 

Regards

Phil
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Ronski

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Re: Future of ADSL EO lines
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2019, 10:20:55 AM »

I've consulted my crystal ball, the same one I use to win the lottery every time I need a topup  ::)

They'll bring back long range VDSL and stick a cabinet at the junction of the A87 and the road to Heasta, solely for all the lines down there.

Bear in mind that if adsl is ceased, local loop unbundling will no longer be an issue for long range VDSL.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2019, 10:23:35 AM by Ronski »
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j0hn

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Re: Future of ADSL EO lines
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2019, 12:13:11 PM »

I'm really not. PSTN is being switched off, as are all copper lines. You are right, this decade, it's for 2025.

A source to back up this absolute nonsense? PSTN is being retired, copper retirement is long after 2025.

What will they do with everyone without FTTP?

edit: Salisbury is targeted to have a copper switch off in 2025.

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2019/07/ofcom-tests-new-regs-on-openreachs-fttp-exchange-upgrade-trial.html

and that's only the very 1st exchange for this to be trialled on.
Then they have the rest of the country to complete.

Thinking copper is being switched off nationwide in 2025 isn't just misinformed, it's deluded.

OpenReach copper still be a thing in 2030.

« Last Edit: September 13, 2019, 12:19:19 PM by j0hn »
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dee.jay

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Re: Future of ADSL EO lines
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2019, 12:18:50 PM »

OK, my mistake -

Suffice to say that this move from a heavily regulated copper network to a new FTTP platform presents more than a few challenges. Some of that work, such as the gradual switch from analogue phone (voice) services to an all-IP (VoIP etc.) style network, are already taking place and should complete by 2025.

However the physical switch-off of copper will be a much longer and more complicated process. Indeed it’s highly likely to take longer than the Government’s current aspiration of 2033 for “nationwide” coverage of FTTP.

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2019/03/openreach-consults-uk-broadband-isps-on-copper-switch-off.html

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PhilipD

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Re: Future of ADSL EO lines
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2019, 02:40:32 PM »

Hi

I think E-Side copper retirement will happen in more places and at a faster pace than full copper retirement.  Once there is no PSTN and everyone is on VDSL/FTTP/G.Fast from their local cabinet, the E-side copper is redundant and the exchange is just humming to itself.  If the exchange doesn't have FTTP terminated there, it's basically mothballed and sold.  Being able to remove redundant E-Side copper also helps free up duct space for further full deployment of FTTP or sharing agreements, and the copper can be sold of course.

I suspect D-Side copper will remain around and in use much much longer, but ADSL will die the soonest out of xDSL technologies.

Regards

Phil





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j0hn

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Re: Future of ADSL EO lines
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2019, 04:21:14 PM »

E-Side copper is likely to remain for SOGEA products, post PSTN shutdown.
The E-Side is necessary to run all line tests for xDSL based services.
That includes ADSL products, VDSL2 products and G.Fast.

I would expect the E-Side to remain until the D-Side is removed.
I've seen nothing to suggest otherwise and testing can't be done from the DSLAMs so I see no other way getting round that.
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ejs

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Re: Future of ADSL EO lines
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2019, 06:29:59 PM »

I think it's possible to get line cards for DSLAMs that do have their own test facilities. A few years ago Openreach swapped out one type of line card that had its own test facilities because they were getting in the way.
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