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[aesmith]

Hi,

So BT has now issued what A&A refer to as a "deadlock", meaning as far as I understand that they will not fix the fault with the service, and we have the option of retaining it on that basis, or of ceasing the service.   I need to have a think because I need a little clarification, however I wonder if anyone has any background to an issue like this.  For example does the deadlock apply only to the current fault symptoms, or does it leave BT able to decline to investigate any different faults or symptoms that may arise?

Any insight would be appreciated.

Thanks, Tony S

[hacktrix2006]

What kind of fault do you have?
How long has the fault been going for?

Deadlock is for any faults I think, however have you talked to A&A about other options that might be available to you.

[aesmith]

The fault is periodic lock-ups of the ADSL service, PPP fails but DSL stays in sync, the fault only clears on a manual re-train either by disconnecting cable, soft re-sync from router GUI or DSLAM port reset.   BT is blaming an electric fence along which the 50 pair cable passes, even though (1) we've seen the lock up when no errors were being detected, (2) the fence was in place in exactly the same form for two years before this fault started and (3) there is no evidence that any other service is affected by the same fault.   This last point gets confused because I can well believe other properties see errors, but if DLM is left to it's own devices these errors are resolved by deeper levels of interleaving.  What I can't believe is that all the other users are having to reboot their routers so frequently but have not raised this as a fault.

I did some checks on the fence and I'm pretty sure I could make big reductions in the errors with a bit of time and money, but have a nasty feeling that even if I did so BT will still use the same excuse.  One or the OR guys was claiming that even if my router and the DSLAM didn't see errors then they would nevertheless still be present.  The fact is there's no proven cause/effect link, because unfortunately the owner can't leave the fence off for days at a time.

[hacktrix2006]

Has your ISP raised a DSO with Openreach?

Also are you on a very long line?

Sent from my SNE-LX1 using Tapatalk

[aesmith]

Last update referred to escalation to DSO and also potentially to HLE,  if that means anything.  Last update was to the effect that DSO was having one more try before passing to HLE, but I don't know if that happened.  Partly because I don't understand the references.   At work we've seen "DSO" used as an Openreach abbreviation for "Director Sign Off" in terms of escalating a provisioning issue.  But I thought I'd also seen it meaning "Director of Service Operations".   Equally it's not clear to me where the boundary of responsibilities lies between BT and Openreach.

Actually the whole thing is annoying.  The last OR guy removed all the posts marking the locations of 6 or 8 joints in our lead in cable, I guess that's symbolic of his intention never to investigate another fault on the line.  I can't think why else he'd want to do that.

The line is 5,300 metres, exchange only.

[hacktrix2006]

Ouch, I didn't fully understand DSO myself, never heard of HLE. Maybe someone will be able to help more then me.

I hope you get it sorted, though as it sucks having a faulty line.

Sent from my SNE-LX1 using Tapatalk

[jelv]

HLE - High Level Escalations

[Weaver]

What about ordering a new line and then ceasing the old one? (Waste of money, I know.) I prefer losing money to hassle and wasting time.

[aesmith]

There is some suggestion of a cease and re-provide at the DSL level using a different build, AA don't understand what BT are saying, and have asked for clarification. 

By the way I remember you reporting apparently inconsistent behaviour with the D-Link modems in relation to target noise margin.  We're running a D-Link at the moment and it appears that immediately after connection the D-Link shows 6 dB, but that quickly changes.  For example today ..
Link up at 09:00:02, at 09:00:10 the D-Link reports NM of 6 dB,  by 09:03:36 it's showing 3.5 dB and 09:17:12 it shows 3.1 dB.   My Zyxel doesn't show that same behaviour, so it looks like a peculiarity in the D-Link reporting, rather than it not responding to target changes on he circuit.

[Weaver]

That change to the lower SNR margin is a bit soon, weird. You’re quite right, I always had that pattern with the DSL-320B-Z1s. The ZyXel is an excellent modem, not necessarily faster but my DLinks ran at a ridiculously low rate some times, eg down to 1.8 dB d/s from a 3dB target, and that is sort-of cheating, so if you correct for that then the DLinks are not faster at all. ZyXels have a lower d/s error rate though and for me the PhyR is amazing; no errors at all at 2.3dB d/s. The only bad thing about them is that their upstream is very slightly worse.

[aesmith]

That change in reported SNR doesn't seem to happen on a 9dB target.  I see a significant speed difference, checking back when I swapped Zyxel to D-Link it changed from vs Zyxel 3764 @9.3dB to D-Link 3504 @9.1dB.

[Chrysalis]

The solution is obvious but the problem is getting openreach to put their hands in their pockets.

Simply reroute the copper pair so it doesnt go by the fence, I mean its not rocket science.

For that 50m is it overhead or in a duct?

Also what other services are available to you?

4g? cable? fttp? wifi broadband? etc.

[aesmith]

Cheers.  I'm trialing 4G with Three at the moment.  Best speed is from O2, followed by EE with Three as slowest and cheapest.   I was hoping not to ditch the landline primarily because there's really no accountability for mobile data, for example no speed estimate or assurance of any sort, and probably no way they would attend a mast fault purely based on one end user report in any case.  So I wanted to have something like a year on 4G before burning my bridges.

FTTPoD is theoretically available, but came back as no bid unless I paid £250 for a survey.  I was only asking for a laugh really, it was highly unlikely to affordable.  I wanted to see if it came out higher than the £26,000 that someone on Think Broadband was quoted.

Moving the cable is an interesting idea, but not trivial.  It's around 200 metres of 50 pair armoured cable directly buried in the verge alongside the public road.  There's a pole at one end effectively at the corner of the field that the electric fence surrounds.   I guess the option is worth following up the idea.  The contradiction we face is that it's only us complaining, but BT is saying the fault "will" or "would" effect everyone.  They're not actually saying it "is" affecting anyone else.  So it may end up with one part of BT saying "we're not moving that cable just for one customer" at the same time as they're also saying there's nothing wrong with our service because this an issue affecting everyone.

[8062282]

Hi - I'm looking at getting 4G broadband on three. What kind of speeds are you getting please?  Do you rate it?

[Alex Atkin UK]

Hi - I'm looking at getting 4G broadband on three. What kind of speeds are you getting please?  Do you rate it?

In my experience it depends entirely on your local mast, time of day (ie number of active users) and which way the wind is blowing.

I definitely wouldn't want to use it without a backup for when its struggling. (I had one day where under load I got a 2000ms ping)

As I have it as a second data-only SIM in my phone I've tried it in Sheffield City Centre, Sheffield Norton/S14, Nottingham City Centre, Nottingham NG7, Leeds LS5 and Manchester City Centre.  The only place I consistently get double-digits is outdoors in Sheffield City Centre.  Although compared to ADSL its probably still an improvement, but its most often in single-digits.  This seems disturbing considering these are some pretty major cities where you'd expect them to have more capacity.

I've NOT tested it anywhere rural where its likely to be under even more load due to everyone getting the same idea of ditching ADSL.

Fortunately if you have a device you can use it with you CAN order a Data Reward SIM, which gives you a free 200MB/month to try out for yourself.