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[Davidhs]

Hello,

I am unable to connect DMT v8 to a DG834 v2 router - running what I believe to be the latest firmware 3.01.38.
The port box flashes red and the following message is displayed:
"Error: Connection establishment failed. There is no server running on the given port (or won't answer)."
I am following the default setup in using port 23.  Is that correct?
Of course I have modified the IP address to match my router.
I have shut down my firewall (Zonealarm) for this test.

I can happily talk to the router both via my web browser and using

What else? New PC running Vista Business.

David

[kitz]

Hi David and welcome to the forums.

Unfortunately DMT doesnt work with the Netgear DG834 or the DG834G
- only the DG834GT which uses a different chipset.

Is there anything specific in dmt which you are trying to access?  If by any chance its to do with trying to change the target SNR yourself then the DG834/DG834G doesnt support this feature (hence why DMT wont work).

If youre wishing to use it to record and graph your SNR values.. then you could try routerstats.

[Davidhs]

Thank you, Kitz,
So I will forget about DMT for the moment.  I had not appreciated the restrictions in the DG834, nor had I yet got as far as wishing to make adjustments.

I already have Router stats 3.1.f running - thanks to earlier reading of your web pages.

My interest is in seeing if I can get more out of a longish cross-country ADSL line that synchs at 3616 kbps down, 832 up with line attenuation 51 & 14.5, Rx noise margin usually at 12-13db but fluctuating down to 10 or even 9db.  TX margin is steadier at 8db.  (All this as reported by Routerstats.)

I pay for a 2 mbps business grade service (Demon), taking the view that lower contention and faster upload are worth having.  Unless I can up the synchronisation speed it is barely worth my while asking & paying for a faster service.

My Netgear DG834 v2 is now a few years old and I also wonder whether a newer router would be able to do better on this line.  I have yet to dig through your fora to see if there is any relevant information.  I only really need a wired router as it sits right next to the phone line entry point in this house and I have a wired fast LAN.  I have a separate wireless access point in a better position to cover useful areas in this rambling, thick-walled, old house for when I move a laptop to another room.

While writing, may I firstly thank you for all the material you have put together.  I have looked at your ISP pages but it appears you only really cover standard "home" services with the slower upload connection.  "Business" grade services with faster upstream appear not to be distinguished.  Have I missed something?

Thanks.

David.

[b4dger]

Hi David,
My attenuation is 50/51 (depending on the weather!) and I use and can recommend the Thomson Speedtouch 585v6 which I moved to after using a Netgear DG824v2 like you.

I'm a bit confused by your post though - if you are on a fixed 2Mb connection then the sync speed etc. won't be relevant (as long as it's above 2Mb!).

Are you having problems with your current connection?

[Davidhs]

Hello B4dger,
I have been looking at your pages this afternoon while the rain poured down - thanks for posting them.  And I see that the 585 is now at v7.
http://www.thomson.net/GlobalEnglish/Products/dsl-modems-gateways/residential_wireless/Pages/default.aspx

Yes I am on a 2mbps service - at present - but my real interest is in establishing whether I can gain anything significant by going for a faster service.
If I cannot improve my synch speed, the return on extra cost would be less.

I have also learnt this afternoon that business grade services are not quite what they used to be, in that they seem no longer to be based on a lower contention, just a share of a higher capacity link somewhere up the network.  Perhaps it comes to much the same in the end. 

This was all triggered by periods of rather pathetic data rates during this last week - bottoming out yesterday morning at 58 kbps!!  That was with no chnages in modem behaviour or synch speed; it was just network congestion somewhere. By evening things were back to a reasonable level.

David.

[Mick]

Yes I am on a 2mbps service - at present - but my real interest is in establishing whether I can gain anything significant by going for a faster service.
If I cannot improve my synch speed, the return on extra cost would be less.

Change your ISP:  these days you should be able to get "up to 8mbps" i.e. DSLMax for no extra charge from a large number of ISPs.

Unfortunately, there's not guaranteed way of telling how high a sync speed you may get on a DSLMax product, because of the many factors that may affect it.  You have to ask to be transfered to it and see what you get.  You can also check here what an estimated maximum speed might be.

I have also learnt this afternoon that business grade services are not quite what they used to be, in that they seem no longer to be based on a lower contention, just a share of a higher capacity link somewhere up the network. 

It is true that on IP Stream that DSLMax uses there is no fixed contention rate as such, but your ISP could be throttling traffic.  When you pay for a business connection you usually get higher throughput speeds because different QoS rules are applied to your connection by the ISP.  Indeed according to Demon's description for Business 2000 you should get "Prioritised traffic during busy periods".  Of course, if the contention happens at the exchange, or the particular server you are trying to connect to, there's not much the ISP can do.  Also, with business accounts you get some sort of a Service Level Agreement (minimum level of performance, or your money back sort of thing), better support, and other bells and whistles that joe public do not get on their domestic accounts.  However, I am not up to speed with fixed speed products so I can't really advise what a 2000 kbps fixed speed profile is meant to offer.

This was all triggered by periods of rather pathetic data rates during this last week - bottoming out yesterday morning at 58 kbps!!  That was with no chnages in modem behaviour or synch speed; it was just network congestion somewhere. By evening things were back to a reasonable level.

Since you are paying for a business account you should be able to take this up with your ISP.  It is up to them to show that it is not their part of the network management that is slowing things down, but something upstream to do with e.g. Internet routing problems, etc.

[kitz]

Started to post this last night, and came to the PC this morning with it still on my screen.. but Im going to post anyhow

>> bottoming out yesterday morning at 58 kbps!!

Thats awful :/  Hope you find out what it is.  Contention shouldnt ever be that low.


Speedtouch routers do seem to be the flavour of the moment and despite not having the best of interfaces do seem to perform pretty well for some lines... b4dger (and some others) swear by them as they work best on his own line. 
Another one worth perhaps looking at is the 2Wire and I'll also let eric report on one of his routers that he uses on a troublesome line.

Theres also the new Netgear DG834gv4..  Ive not heard any complaints about it..  its based on the Broadcom chipset, seems pretty reliable and also seems to work well on some long lines.  The advantage of it being a broadcom chipset is that it should work with DMT tool v8.

I have looked at your ISP pages but it appears you only really cover standard "home" services with the slower upload connection.  "Business" grade services with faster upstream appear not to be distinguished.  Have I missed something?

Nope not really ..  more the fact of how long it takes to maintain the list.. theres about/over 150 different products in there and keeping those up to date can sometimes take a bit of time as it is :/

[roseway]

>> I'll also let eric report

Thanks

The best performing and most stable router on my line is the Billion 5200G, but that's for very specific reasons which might not apply to many other people. It has the unusual capability to force the target noise margin to 6 dB regardless of what target has been set at the exchange, so it always gets the best connection speed. This is fine until the line goes crackly (as it does from time to time) when I have to swap it for a different router. So I would say that it's a good choice on a clean line, but not on a noisy one.

[b4dger]

The Thomson Speedtouch 585v6 has certainly transformed my quite long (50/51db) flaky (noisey!) rural line 

But since Netgear introduced it's DG834v4 with the same broadcom chipset as the Speedtouch it's starting to look quite interesting.

Most people seem to be reporting a more stable connection but some have said the sync is a lot lower than a 585v6.
But the good news is the excellent RouterStats can now tweak the SNR of the v4 and GT  8)

I'm surprised I haven't heard more about this feature which has been available since 25th April 2008.
By the way have I mentioned(!) having the current SNR displayed in the system tray icon was my suggestion? 

If anyone has experience of tweaking a Netgear v4 with RouterStats please post your experiences here at Kitz...

[Davidhs]

Thanks everybody,
I have ordered an ST 546v6.  It will be interesting to see what it can make of this line - attenuation 51 db & 14.5 db.  Possibly the latest Netgear would be just as good but nothing like a change to add interest.

When the new box has settled in I will consider ISP alternatives.

David.