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Author Topic: Openreach UK Project Targets Speed Boost for G.fast Broadband  (Read 746 times)

Bowdon

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https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2019/05/openreach-work-hints-100mbps-at-500-metres-on-g-fast-broadband.html

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Openreach (BT) is slowly progressing with a future upgrade of their hybrid-fibre G.fast broadband technology, which could enable the service to harness some of the existing radio spectrum frequency being used by VDSL2 based Fibre-to-the-Cabinet (FTTC) lines. Early tests show a possible boost to speed and coverage.

After reading the article it talks about the impact in frequencies of running both VDSL2 and G.fast along side each other and how they have to kept seperated.

Can someone tell me how the frequencies are interacting with each other considering that G.fast lines are coming from a seperate pod that is vectored? Does the interference come from when the copper lines come away from the cabinet and they are side by side?

While it is good they are trying to squeeze the best possible performance from the G.fast technology in the limited deployment that OR have used it, I still find it a waste of time to be 1. focusing on a service only a limited amount of people can benefit from (and an even smaller number were the connection will be stable at high speeds), and 2. that there is such a low take-up.

The original problem of powering G.fast lines that stopped OR deploying it further in to the community was solved by an Israeli company years ago. I remember seeing a video demostration of it. There is still nothing to stop OR going back to their original plan of deploying it to poles and manholes as they push their fibre network further out.

I think when these survey's are done about broadband connections in areas, they should move away from using the average speeds, and also the advertised speeds and use a sample of actual real life connections. Because I've heard it said that the reason G.fast is being deployed to cabinets is to increase the overall average speeds in that area. But my issue is that if 1. very few people are actually using G.fast, and 2. when they do they aren't getting the full speeds, then the survey's are showing a false picture i.e. making out that the speeds available in an area is higher than they are in reality. Which is good for marketing, but not good for the customers as its misleading advertising imho.
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j0hn

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Re: Openreach UK Project Targets Speed Boost for G.fast Broadband
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2019, 11:35:37 AM »

Quote
Can someone tell me how the frequencies are interacting with each other considering that G.fast lines are coming from a seperate pod that is vectored?

They aren't at the moment.

VDSL2 uses 0 - 17MHz
G.Fast uses 20-106MHz

They are trying to get G.Fast to share the same frequencies as VDSL2 as it's the lower frequencies that travel further. It would increase G.Fast range and increase speed.

When they start sharing frequencies they will interfere with each other.

G.Fast can only vector itself, all the lines on its pod.
It can't vector the VDSL2 signal.

edit: actually reading the article sounds like they might start by using the 17 - 19MHz gap between the 2 technologies.

Sharing the VDSL2 frequency sounds a long way off.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2019, 11:47:02 AM by j0hn »
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re0

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Re: Openreach UK Project Targets Speed Boost for G.fast Broadband
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2019, 01:07:00 PM »

In itself, utilising from ~17.7 MHz isn't going to do a whole lot it seems. I presume the aggregate increase would be ~10 Mbps under good circumstances on a short-ish line, just as the article says. At a distance, the %'age data rate increase would seem great but in reality it will only provide ultrafast (100+ Mbps) at an extra 10-20 meters, right? It's a start, regardless. But I guess the other benefit is that people currently on the fringe of G.fast currently would have a little upstream boost, which should take it a bit closer to that of VDSL2.

While quite a bit of the report is above my head, it will be interesting to see how it will be implemented in the UK nonetheless.
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ejs

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Re: Openreach UK Project Targets Speed Boost for G.fast Broadband
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2019, 04:01:47 PM »

"News" from ISPreview about documents that were published in July and November 2018. The ANFP document was updated more recently, to allow for G.fast to use frequencies below 19MHz in two different scenarios. I think one is when the G.fast is some distance from the cabinet/VDSL2 (which it generally isn't), and the other is some sort of agreement between the DSLAM operator and all relevant CPs for a particular cabinet.
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: Openreach UK Project Targets Speed Boost for G.fast Broadband
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2019, 11:08:28 AM »

I wonder if this could also be related to the suggestion that they might now swap out some ECI kit with cards that can do both VDSL and G.FAST?

Presumably then vectoring could function across all lines and so utilisation of the frequencies could be much more optimal?
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Chrysalis

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Re: Openreach UK Project Targets Speed Boost for G.fast Broadband
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2019, 05:35:18 PM »

Interesting the article states reasons of regulation for lack of vdsl vectoring in commercial areas, I believe the only reason would be as it would make it difficult for CPs to rollout their own dslams but given none have chosen to do so the practical restriction is zero.

What other regulatory reasons would there be?

I am unsure whats been proposed tho.

It seems to be either they going to just use the 17-19mhz which is currently unused, I think this risks reducing the highest few tones on VDSL with crosstalk tho.  Probably a loss of 1-2mbit or so sync speed to those affected.  (those affected would likely be already syncing at least at around 55-60 minimum).  This would annoy me slightly for a short time but I would get over it.

Or they considering overlapping from 2.2 upwards, which would probably cause a noticeable impact if its on a crosstalking pair.  To do this when g.fast is so unpopular and is already the higher speed product I think would be a misjudgement, and I hope they dont go down this road.  I see g.fast as a dead end product and I am surprised its even getting any attention at all at this point.

If BT are still concerned about copper performance past 80mbit in VM areas (I guess they not willing to go FTTP in all VM areas) then they would be better spending time on ripping out g.fast, replacing it with 35MHZ vectored VDSL.  As g.fast isnt going to save them many customers.

My area will have gigabit vodafone available in 2020, VM rolling out upgraded speeds also in this area, and right now the local cabinets dont even have g.fast and are all ECI.  Openreach seem to be lacking any kind of foresight here.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2019, 05:37:23 PM by Chrysalis »
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Chrysalis

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Re: Openreach UK Project Targets Speed Boost for G.fast Broadband
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2019, 08:14:50 PM »

Thanks will read it tomorrow, to add also my area has a ton of students, so there is no lazyness/loyalty means to hold onto them, every year is new tenants and a new fight for their custom.  I really dont know what openreach are thinking.

It will be VM 500mbit no phone line required, no long term contract required vs gigabit vodafone vs 80/20 distance/crosstalk dependent copper phone line required.
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johnson

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Re: Openreach UK Project Targets Speed Boost for G.fast Broadband
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2019, 08:57:02 PM »

It will be VM 500mbit no phone line required, no long term contract required vs gigabit vodafone vs 80/20 distance/crosstalk dependent copper phone line required.

One would hope its changed with general tech savviness being so much higher these days, but there were always horror stories from friends back when I was a student about some enthusiastic housemate "sorting" the internet for everyone, asking their parents and being told BT was the best option. Enjoy the 12 month contract on < 8mbps!  :lol:
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gt94sss2

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Re: Openreach UK Project Targets Speed Boost for G.fast Broadband
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2019, 10:45:49 PM »

Interesting the article states reasons of regulation for lack of vdsl vectoring in commercial areas, I believe the only reason would be as it would make it difficult for CPs to rollout their own dslams but given none have chosen to do so the practical restriction is zero.

There are some firms which use sub loop unbundling such as Warwicknet and Rutland Telecom (Gigaclear)


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Chrysalis

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Re: Openreach UK Project Targets Speed Boost for G.fast Broadband
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2019, 07:33:21 AM »

ahhh didnt know thanks, im of the opinion tho SLU vs vectoring , the latter is better.
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