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[Weaver]

I really don’t like this Face ID idea at all. It’s incredibly convenient I’m sure, but expensive. The security aspect worries me. It’s now so incredibly easy for bad guys including policemen and muggers to get in to your data. Just force you to show your own mug or show a large photo of the owner to the device (I know that there’s supposed to be some defence measure against that). If I were away, then I would certainly want to make sure it is turned off. And I’m assuming that one can turn it off?

The problem is, what would remind me to turn it off? I know one can declare a location geographical alert / alarm as I have seen this in action. But when someone sets up an alarm to go of when one leaves place-home, then it would go off too late, and it would be a massive pain having to stop and turn the faceid thing off when you are or have been moving. And in any case I don’t know if one can set up alarms like that on an every-occasion / ‘standing order’ declaration basis, as opposed to an alarm that is a one of, ‘now, when I place=x now/next’ one time.

What would be good is the ability to set a geo rule : faceid=on only at this location, elsewhere=off. And that could be set up with one or two allowed locations say, home and work = on, provided that the geofence was very small and tight, so that you could not be in danger getting mugged right outside a location.

If I were ever likely to be repeatedly travelling, even going shopping, somewhere where I might be mugged, then I would just have faceid off all the time as it isn’t worth the risk in my view and the hassle of having to remember somehow to keep turning it off would outweigh the convenience.

I might well need to advise my beloved on security if she gets a blessed new iPhone. In Skye she is nearly as safe from getting mugged as one can get. There have been crimes in Skye in the past: theft of central heating oil, drugs offences now maybe and that idiot trying to steal a huge BT fibre optic network cable that goes under Loch Carrann thinking it was a feast of copper. My wife would perhaps know, but I’m never in touch with the news. But I would not at all be surprised to hear there has never been a mugging in the last century. Going back in history of course there were mass murders and idiotic tribal internecine battles, such as the massacres in the cave on Eilean Eige and the resultant reprisal massacre at the Blàr Milleadh a’ Ghàrraidh. But apart from tribal bloodbaths, I think she’s pretty safe.

[sevenlayermuddle]

I’m also thinking of getting a new iPhone, and have been giving this some thought.

It seems to me that the most likely scenarios for concern would be

1) that I accidentally leave it somewhere, and it is found by a thief.
2) that a pick pocket takes it, unnoticed by me.
3) that is is grabbed out of my hands, ie by a moped rider.
4) that it is taken from me by a mugger, armed with a weapon.

Assuming that face id does work, and needs my actual 3d face and an appropriate ‘stare’ to unlock, (1)-(3) are not an issue, as the phone no longer has access to my face.

Scenario (4) might be a problem, as the mugger may order me to stare at the phone to unlock it, under threat of violence.   But without face id, he/she could equally well force me to enter a passcode under threat of violence, so I’m not sure face id really matters.

Wrt police in the UK, I understand (not certain) that I would be legally compelled to disclose a passcode if requested by a police officer, and could go to jail if I refuse.  So again, face id makes little difference, as I’d also comply with a simple request for a passcode.

[Weaver]

As for the mugger thing, at least I would have a choice, albeit an extremely unenviable one, in the case of entering my pin or not. that might very well understandably sound daft to me but it matches the way I think, very stubborn.

As for police, I intend (if I ever leave bed) to wipe a phone or iPad in advance before going into any situation where police or airport / border nazis might want to get into my phone. So it will be unlocked and empty and there will be nothing to see. They can’t legally require you to ‘have some content’ juicy or not. All of my stuff is in the iCloud anyway, in servers geographically beyond their reach and is also nothing to do with any particular hardware device. When I get through whatever problematic situation such as an airport, then I just later reconnect to the iCloud.

Of course, Sod’s law, the nazis or more likely policemen might spring upon you in the coop when you have not prepared for such an eventuality with the required wipe and then all your evil content is found out.

Somehow I thoroughly object to the idea of criminals or nazis fiddling around with my files, but I don’t care about theft of devices.

[Weaver]

@7LM regarding the moped rider and similar.

I have an electronic hand warmer. It has a microprocessor in it for control purposes and a fat battery and a heater element. It just pumps out heat to warm your hands and is rechargeable. Janet has fitted a ribbon loop to it which is looped around my wrist or rather arm so that I do not lose the unit.

I wonder if such a wrist loop would thwart the moped snatcher?

[sevenlayermuddle]

Re the mugger scenario.... I’ve not played with a face id phone, but my understanding is that the mugger wouldn’t achieve much just by pointing the phone at you, you have to look/stare back at it.   Also, I think it disables face id after a small number of face rejections.

So, if you are willing to challenge the mugger’s threats of violence, simply avoiding eye contact with the phone, or just closing your eyes, would frustrate his game.   But stress again, I’ve never played with face id, so not sure how effective that tactic would be.

[displaced]

I’ve got an iPhone XS and use Face ID all the time.

You certainly need to be looking at the device for it to unlock.  You can have it perfectly aligned, face-on, but if you’ve got your eyeballs over to the side, it won’t unlock until you look directly at it.  It’s freaky how well it works.

If you want it to require a PIN, just squeeze both sides briefly as you take it out of your pocket. Holding the Siri/Wake button (right side) and either of the two volume buttons for a brief moment will trigger a triple-haptic pattern. The device will show the ‘Power Off/Medical ID/SOS Call’ screen - just tap the power button again to sleep the display.  It’ll then require a PIN or password to unlock.

edit: Should add that I got my iPhone 6S snatched from me by twats on mopeds a couple of years ago. Ran straight back into the office to log in to Find My Phone on icloud.com. They’d already turned it off. I set the device to notify me and wipe itself as soon as it came back online. Left it on my iCloud account for two years, and it never did.  These days, the security’s so good the device is only worth stripping down for parts to be sold on.

Also, Face ID does not work at all with a photo of a face. The front camera also has an IR pattern projector which lets the device build a 3D map of the face. That’s also why it works in the dark.

[sevenlayermuddle]

edit: Should add that I got my iPhone 6S snatched from me by twats on mopeds a couple of years ago.

Wow, sorry.   We’ve all heard of it happening, but a bit shocking to hear of it first hand.

Can’t help feeling there’s an equivalence with another phenomenon, that seems to be becoming a lot more common, which is “thug” seagulls snatching food.   It has happened twice to me in past few years, once an ice cream, and once the fish from my fish&chips.

On each occasion of my own I’ve thought, we are more highly evolved than seagulls, and they are impeding our evolution by eating our food, why don’t the authorities just shoot them?   I’m trying to resist entertaining similar thoughts regarding phone grabbers. 

[Weaver]

We used to have a friendly seagull at the house, but it went away many years ago. It was probably because my neighbour had tasty things at the back of his house. The gull used to land on the electricity pole! But it’s amazing that we just never see them even though we are so close to the sea. See golden eagles more frequently than gulls for all I know. (After bunnies perhaps or else dead sheep.)

That’s very good to know about FaceTime - they do seem to have really thought it through.

It’s shocking to hear from someone directly who has been robbed. Indeed you hear about such things nth hand but that’s all.

[displaced]

Thanks guys!

I’d just left my office on Blackfriars Road to go for lunch. These days it has a large separate cycle lane on the northbound side where our office is.  I’d been reading my phone in the lift and had jammed it in my pocket. As I got to the kerb I wondered if I’d left the phone on, so pulled it slightly out of my pocket to press the power button. And then it was just gone!  They didn’t even touch me. Off they went towards Elephant & Castle.

I mean, forgetting the whole ‘crime’ part, it was really well-executed. Takes some skill!

The gadget insurance I get with my current account got me a replacement in 3 days, which I can’t complain about.

Silly thing is, I don’t walk around in London with my phone in my hand like so many others do. Mainly because it makes you walk like an idiot and get in everyone’s way. Besides, there always something interesting to look at.  Just my luck that I happened to take it out in the wrong place at the wrong time!

Now, when I’m on a break, I stand with my phone behind the pillars that are in front of our building, or very nearby.  A couple of months ago I had a moped come up onto the pavement towards me. I took a quick hop to my left back behind the pillar and shouted ‘not this time, mate’.  Gotta have a chuckle.

Anyway, it’s much better recently. The Met have started knocking them off their mopeds, even if they take their helmets off. That’s what they used to do to prevent the cops taking them down in the past.  I think that’s a proportionate response considering how persistent the problem was.  They’re opportunists, and now that the risks have increased, they’ve dialled it back. Plus, one of the main gangs have been locked up as of a couple of weeks ago.

[Weaver]

If I saw one such rogue I would try and kick him off his moped. Maybe sticking my umbrella into the wheel would cause some interesting results. And then the git would probably end up suing me, for assault or some such, but it would be worth it.

At work we saw a guy on a motorbike who parked, and then for god only knows what reason went and scratched every one of a line of cars parked outside our office (near Baker St.). By the time we could get downstairs he had walked off and disappeared, but his bike was still there. So a quick thinking colleague got a bicycle lock and clamped the fool’s bike by putting it on the wheel. When he came back we went downstairs quickly in order to stop him trying to ride off without noticing the lock. Confronted with one or two of us he was willing to say something to the effect of ‘you and whose army’ but at that point the army itself appeared, with half a dozen people and more all the time coming out of our office as reinforcements. Then he suddenly looked a bit sheepish. Sheepish turned to sick very shortly afterwards, when a police car arrived.