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Author Topic: Badly hit by crosstalk  (Read 7782 times)

re0

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Re: Badly hit by crosstalk
« Reply #105 on: June 27, 2019, 06:37:08 PM »

Everyone should be forced to work in IT for a while. Will soon reduce the appetite to 'take work home' with you.
That'll work, at least until you quit. Though, if you ever work on "helldesk", then you'd probably never want to work again. :P
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tubaman

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Re: Badly hit by crosstalk
« Reply #106 on: June 27, 2019, 06:40:23 PM »

Better idea: turn DSL Stats off. If you don't notice anything wrong it's fine.
....
Oh so true.....but It's very tempting to have a little peek every now and again. ::)
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BT FTTC 80/20 Huawei Cab - Zyxel VMG8924-B10A

flilot

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Re: Badly hit by crosstalk
« Reply #107 on: June 27, 2019, 06:54:10 PM »

Though, if you ever work on "helldesk", then you'd probably never want to work again. :P

I recommend everyone work on a "helldesk" at least once in their life.  It toughens you up (aside from crying in the car on the way home every night).   :lol:
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Carl
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cabinet8 - My journey back to xDSL after a decade with VM.

re0

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Re: Badly hit by crosstalk
« Reply #108 on: June 27, 2019, 07:06:35 PM »

I recommend everyone work on a "helldesk" at least once in their life.  It toughens you up (aside from crying in the car on the way home every night).   :lol:
And remember, if you want to keep your job, the director of a company who needs support is always right and shouldn't need to follow your instructions. The bigger the support package, the more right they are.

Sorry for off topic!
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flilot

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Re: Badly hit by crosstalk
« Reply #109 on: June 27, 2019, 08:36:32 PM »

And remember, if you want to keep your job, the director of a company who needs support is always right and shouldn't need to follow your instructions. The bigger the support package, the more right they are.

Sorry for off topic!
Spot on!  ;D
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Carl
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cabinet8 - My journey back to xDSL after a decade with VM.

adslmax

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Re: Badly hit by crosstalk
« Reply #110 on: June 27, 2019, 09:05:19 PM »

Just got back home from a day out. Not surprise the Errors are start to pick up again. DLM should have left G.INP enabled to get errors free. But the errors are not that bad then 6/7 days ago.

Don't understand DLM sometimes.  ???

Since Link time = 7 hours 59 min 57 sec
FEC:            966             78
CRC:            0               26
ES:             0               22
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
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tubaman

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Re: Badly hit by crosstalk
« Reply #111 on: June 28, 2019, 08:00:33 AM »

No problem with that level of errors - just ignore them.
Clearly you are used to a line with virtually no errors, but that is a very unusual thing. DLM is not there to give you an error free line, but the best balance between speed and an acceptable error level.
Below are the stats from my line - look at how many errors there are, but also look at the 49 days of uptime. You can have a lot of errors before DLM worries about it, and you are barely scratching the surface with the number you have.
 :)

(Ignore my 'since link time' counter showing under 3 minutes - it's a bug in my Zyzel unit that the days and hours drop off after a certain amount of uptime)
Code: [Select]
====================================================================================
    VDSL Training Status:   Showtime
                    Mode:   VDSL2 Annex B
            VDSL Profile:   Profile 17a
                G.Vector:   Disable
            Traffic Type:   PTM Mode
             Link Uptime:   49 days: 17 hours: 2 minutes
====================================================================================
       VDSL Port Details       Upstream         Downstream
               Line Rate:      7.056 Mbps       45.516 Mbps
    Actual Net Data Rate:      7.030 Mbps       45.517 Mbps
          Trellis Coding:         ON                ON
              SNR Margin:        4.9 dB            3.1 dB
            Actual Delay:          0 ms              0 ms
          Transmit Power:        6.5 dBm          11.9 dBm
           Receive Power:      -15.5 dBm         -23.4 dBm
              Actual INP:        0.0 symbols      50.0 symbols
       Total Attenuation:        0.0 dB          26.6 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate:      6.882 Mbps       46.087 Mbps
====================================================================================
  VDSL Band Status        U0      U1      U2      U3      U4      D1      D2      D3
  Line Attenuation(dB): 11.7 51.0   N/A   N/A   N/A 21.4 60.7 90.3
Signal Attenuation(dB): 11.7 51.3   N/A   N/A   N/A 33.3 60.3   N/A
        SNR Margin(dB): 5.1 4.9   N/A   N/A   N/A 3.1 3.1   N/A
         TX Power(dBm): -3.9 6.1   N/A   N/A   N/A 9.8 7.8   N/A
====================================================================================

            VDSL Counters

           Downstream        Upstream
Since Link time = 2 min 47 sec
FEC: 1369264475 6101
CRC: 175418 2410
ES: 46710 2232
SES: 747 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 12 min 55 sec
FEC: 184730 1
CRC: 20 0
ES: 6 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 143395 3
CRC: 11 1
ES: 6 1
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 1 day time = 42 min 55 sec
FEC: 524877 4
CRC: 45 1
ES: 20 1
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC: 28067001 116
CRC: 4519 56
ES: 1020 50
SES: 19 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Total time = 1 days 42 min 55 sec
FEC: 3975250867 7877
CRC: 351380 6026
ES: 107888 5711
SES: 1105 3
UAS: 172 140
LOS: 3 0
LOF: 19 0
LOM: 0 0
====================================================================================
« Last Edit: June 28, 2019, 08:06:45 AM by tubaman »
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BT FTTC 80/20 Huawei Cab - Zyxel VMG8924-B10A

adslmax

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Re: Badly hit by crosstalk
« Reply #112 on: June 28, 2019, 10:11:25 AM »

My errors count latest stats:

Since Link time = 21 hours 8 min 5 sec
FEC:            3026            202
CRC:            0               76
ES:             0               68
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0

adsl info --stats
adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 25739 Kbps, Downstream rate = 91337 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 79999 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        8.5             15.0
Attn(dB):        11.8            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        12.6            0.6

Downstream   Upstream
Line attenuation (dB):     11.8      0.0
Signal attenuation (dB):   Not available on VDSL2      
Connection speed (kbps):   79999      19999
SNR margin (dB):           8.5      15.0
Power (dBm):               12.6      0.6
Interleave depth:          16      1
INP:                       48.00      0
G.INP:                     Enabled      Not enabled

Still low errors on upstream but more important the downstream are errors free which it good.
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adslmax

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Re: Badly hit by crosstalk
« Reply #113 on: June 29, 2019, 08:42:27 AM »

Latest stats below: so far everything looking good.
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adslmax

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Re: Badly hit by crosstalk
« Reply #114 on: July 03, 2019, 07:07:25 PM »

Updated after 6 days and 6 hours: All seem fine without any DLM action.

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adslmax

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Re: Badly hit by crosstalk
« Reply #115 on: July 07, 2019, 01:14:08 PM »

Updated after 10 days and all seem fine without any DLM action.  ;D


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adslmax

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Re: Badly hit by crosstalk
« Reply #116 on: July 09, 2019, 07:28:05 PM »

Tomorrow I might order G.fast with Zen Internet as Zen say the total cost below:

New line installation £70.80
New G.fast activated fee £55.00
New G.fast service 160/30 £49.99

Total cost one off payment £175.79 then 11 monthly payments of £49.99 on a 12 months contract.

Openreach email communicate with me below:

1st email:
Iíve had one of our technical experts take a look at why the 2 premises below are being quoted different speeds, heís confirmed that this is due to discrepancies being identified on one of the lines that would need to be resolved to enhance the speed.  In this instance (mine) would be offered a managed install (engineering visit) to optimise the line and fix any wiring issues, whereas (next 2 doors) could opt for a self-install.  The estimated speeds are based on physical measurements taken from our line test systems.

2nd email:
An engineer managed install will certainly help you achieve the best possible speed, however Iím unable to provide a guarantee as to what that would be.  Given the estimated speeds from the line tests, you would hope something very close to 300mb would be achievable.

3rd email:
Unfortunately an engineer visit can only be arranged once we have received an order.  Thereís a number of ISPís who can offer the GFAST service, however they would all be in the same position.

4th email:
The ISPís can and do set different minimum thresholds, you would therefore need to discuss this point directly with them.

Anyway I spoken to Zen Internet as they asked the provisioning team of everything what openreach and I was communicate about G.fast and Zen say that Engineer is only come to my property to installed new line socket as per of my request and put in the same hallway where the feed are coming in from outside as it will be in your master socket (where your current FTTC on it) and added a second master socket for G.fast and switched the line on. Zen say engineer are not responsible for any optimise the line and fix any wiring issues such as very close to 300mb would be achievable nor set different minimum thresholds. U will order 160/30 as our test system say your line will support 198Meg down and 29Meg up but these could anything from 114Meg to 152Meg for your line. We held no responsible for not getting 300Meg or more as your line length are much further away from the exchange to the cabinet.

But, Zen Internet warned me 10 days cooling period is only start from the day of your order not the day of your G.fast activated so u can't cancelled the order once it was activated as it will be more than 10 working days for the new line and G.fast possible within 2 weeks.

here is layout of where the g.fast cable route (sorry for my poor layout drawing) go to: https://ibb.co/wCdXVHM
 



 

 

« Last Edit: July 09, 2019, 07:55:57 PM by adslmax »
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j0hn

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Re: Badly hit by crosstalk
« Reply #117 on: July 10, 2019, 01:18:57 AM »

Do you know what houses are on the same DP as you?
Is the house in your drawing that had the 330/50 estimate on the same DP?

Do you need G.Fast? That's a lot of money for something you likely don't need.

I would guess you would get the full 160/30 as your estimates look off compared to the neighbours.
You could always get 114/9 though.

I'm not sure how Zen come up with their estimates.
The upstream estimate is your clean/high estimate.
The downstream estimate range is between slightly under clean/high and slightly above impacted/low.
I also though 120Mb was the minimum now so how can they estimate as low as 114Mb?

Zen give you a Huawei MT992 which gives zero stats.
The Zen portal will tell you the current sync speed.

You would need to kindly ask the OpenReach engineer to show you on his/her handheld device what the line is capable of like in the attached image.
They have no obligation to show you this though so be nice and offer tea/coffee and biscuits.

It looks like an Exfo MaxTester 630G
https://www.exfo.com/en/products/field-network-testing/copper-dsl-testing/maxtester-630g/

I think if you don't need it, don't order it.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2019, 01:29:57 AM by j0hn »
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Plusnet FTTC 80/20 -  ECI now Huawei cab
retx low @ 3dB target SNRM
Zyxel VMG1312-B10A bridged with 1508 MTU + Asus RT-AC68U running Asuswrt-Merlin

adslmax

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Re: Badly hit by crosstalk
« Reply #118 on: July 10, 2019, 02:06:42 AM »

Do you know what houses are on the same DP as you? Yes
Is the house in your drawing that had the 330/50 estimate on the same DP? Yes

If that house get 330/50 then why should mine get it as well as all houses are are the same connected to cabinet 8? See screenshot below

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tubaman

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Re: Badly hit by crosstalk
« Reply #119 on: July 10, 2019, 08:10:47 AM »

What would this much more expensive service allow you to do that you can't do on your current 80/20 service?
As j0hn has eluded to you could end up with 114/9 - ie faster download but less than half of your current upload speed, although this would appear unlikely. Are you prepared to take that risk?
One other thing - how do you manage to communicate directly with Openreach, as I thought consumers could only go via an ISP?
 :)
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BT FTTC 80/20 Huawei Cab - Zyxel VMG8924-B10A
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