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Author Topic: Should I be concerned with this level of packet loss and latency?  (Read 4050 times)

7cfm

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Screenshots attached from samknows and thinkbroadband BQM for the same period, the BQM looks much worse that sam knows for some reason. Browsing the internet doesn't feel too bad and we are able to watch iplayer, netflix etc without buffering, there are no gamers in the household. My biggest problem was disconnections 2 or 3 times a day but since I started using a TP-Link TD-W9970 instead of a Zyxel VMG1312-B10A as a modem and the SNR raised to 9 these seem to have settled down and I've been up about 3 weeks now (or at least that's what the modem is reporting). I'm not sure whether to report this to BT or just leave well alone?
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PhilipD

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Re: Should I be concerned with this level of packet loss and latency?
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2019, 09:38:14 AM »

Hi

Those charts are very bad, showing a large amount of packet loss.

What are your modem stats, i.e. lets work from the bottom upwards.  However given you've had no disconnections and no problems browsing, it might just be a switch somewhere is quite busy and is on purpose dropping the ICMP packets.  Usually with that sort of reported packet loss you would be having issues when using the connection if it was dropping all packets and not just pings.

What were the charts like on the ZyXel?

It could simply by the TP-Link is not responding to the packets all the time (which is why it would be useful to know if the problem was also present on the ZyXel), because it's too busy doing something else (TP-Link budget kit is cheap for a reason).

Regards

Phil
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7cfm

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Re: Should I be concerned with this level of packet loss and latency?
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2019, 02:25:12 PM »

Hi

Packet loss on the on zyxel was broadly the same but it would lose connection 2 to 3 times a day, not a problem at 3:00am but very annoying in the middle of watching a film on netflix in the evening. The TP-Link seems to hold onto the line like glue, I know itís a budget chipset but it seems to get good reviews over at thinkbroadband which is why I thought Iíd try it. I got a lot of downstream CRC errors and errored seconds until the SNR was raised to 9 and I now get very few, I still get a lot on the upsteam but no webserver or gamers so it matters little.

Iíve attached the full output of the router, Iíve also got dslstats running 24/7 on a rpi with Kitzs custom interface and also a samknows white box so lots of stats and pretty graphs I can share if any of them would shed any light? 

BTW the modem is plugged directly into the master socket so no nasty internal wiring to interfere with it.

Cheers

Ken
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j0hn

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Re: Should I be concerned with this level of packet loss and latency?
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2019, 02:54:55 PM »

The packet loss doesn't look like it's being caused by the xDSL link as the errors look perfectly fine.
You only have 10 ES in 24 days. You have less FEC in that time than I get in 1 hour, and I consider my line to be pretty perfect.

You should be getting around 27Mb but DLM has capped the line at 22.4Mb which is why the SNRM is up at 9dB.

The ISP needs to investigate the packet loss. Don't let them send OpenReach as I don't believe their part of the link is responsible.
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7cfm

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Re: Should I be concerned with this level of packet loss and latency?
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2019, 03:12:24 PM »

I'm not sure what you mean, doesn't openreach look after the infrastructure? What else might it be? The ISP is BT so there will be poor customer service training and language barrier to overcome first so I'm going to need to be pretty well prepped before I attempt that one.
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jelv

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Re: Should I be concerned with this level of packet loss and latency?
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2019, 03:53:42 PM »

Do you see the BQM showing the same level of loss if you turn off WiFi on the router and disconnect all all your PC's etc. (including the RPi) for a period (say 20 minutes)?
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7cfm

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Re: Should I be concerned with this level of packet loss and latency?
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2019, 04:44:19 PM »

I'll disconnect the router from the modem tonight so he modem is isolated from the LAN and see, what do you suspect is happening?
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j0hn

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Re: Should I be concerned with this level of packet loss and latency?
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2019, 05:07:10 PM »

OpenReach control the pair from your home to the DSLAM/cabinet.
This isn't the issue.
They also control the fibre between the DSLAM and the exchange, but this is also unlikely to be the issue.

Packet loss is more likely to be between the exchange and the wider internet.
That's the responsibility of your ISP and/or their backhaul provider, such as BT Wholesale.

I've never seen an OpenReach engineer fix packet loss, unless the xDSL link had huge errors.

I'd be asking for BT to request BT Wholesale check if you are on a congested VLAN.

You also state you have changed modems. Have you tried a different router?.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2019, 05:11:21 PM by j0hn »
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7cfm

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Re: Should I be concerned with this level of packet loss and latency?
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2019, 06:34:38 PM »

Yes, when it first went in I had the BT Smarthub that they provided on the line, I initially though that was what was causing the issue.
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Ronski

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Re: Should I be concerned with this level of packet loss and latency?
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2019, 08:47:04 PM »

I'll disconnect the router from the modem tonight so he modem is isolated from the LAN and see, what do you suspect is happening?

If you disconnect the router from the modem, then there will be nothing to respond to the pings, that is presuming the modem is in bridge mode
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7cfm

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Re: Should I be concerned with this level of packet loss and latency?
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2019, 09:07:26 PM »

Doh! It's been a long day :-) 

I've got an old BT Home Hub somewhere with an Ethernet port, I'll pop that on at the weekend to eliminate a router issue.
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jelv

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Re: Should I be concerned with this level of packet loss and latency?
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2019, 11:11:15 AM »

I'll disconnect the router from the modem tonight so he modem is isolated from the LAN and see, what do you suspect is happening?

As Ronski posted you need something to respond to the pings.

My thought was to do an absolute belt and braces check that it is nothing internal causing the issue. You'd then be able to confirm that you had checked that when you complain to your ISP.
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Chrysalis

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Re: Should I be concerned with this level of packet loss and latency?
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2019, 05:34:03 AM »

i think the router might be rate limiting icmp, what router is it?
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7cfm

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Re: Should I be concerned with this level of packet loss and latency?
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2019, 07:22:59 AM »

It's an ASUS RT-AC66U_B1 with the merlin firmwire. I wondered that as well, particularly as the packet loss isn't as bad on the samknows box, presumably that is pinging outwards to a  server rather than pinging in? I'm not really sure how it works though. I'm hoping to find some time today to swap the router out and get an answer one way or another, I'm also wondering whether it's worth the effort of swapping out the modem as well, also will I still get the dropouts with the  Zyxel VMG1312-B10A  now the SNR has been raised. Also, although the TP-Link TD-W9970 is showing as not having any resynchs I'm beginning to suspect that isn't the case as I've noticed that the external iP has changed several times and the router occasionally drops connection to the modem.

So many unknowns atm.
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7cfm

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Re: Should I be concerned with this level of packet loss and latency?
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2019, 09:12:10 AM »

OK, the results are in, I've now replaced TP-Link TD-W9970 (modem) to ASUS RT-AC66U_B1 (router) with Zyxel VMG1312-B10A (modem) to BT Home Hub 5 (router) and the result is....... dramatic drum roll......100% packet loss, the BT HH5 doesn't support ping requests and is non configurable, one HH5 dropped in the bin.

Now where did I stash that travel router?
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