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Author Topic: High latency while small downloads/streaming on another device  (Read 2716 times)

Reaps

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Re: High latency while small downloads/streaming on another device
« Reply #45 on: March 05, 2019, 07:57:47 PM »

So far, i'm going through over the hurdles BT put in place to try and get this escalated.

Step 1 was to get 3 different BT engineers at my house. Only once 3 engineers have been, will this get assigned a case manager to look further into.
That has happened today and I've now been assigned a case manager to look into it. We'll see what happens after this.
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Reaps

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Re: High latency while small downloads/streaming on another device
« Reply #46 on: March 15, 2019, 11:58:34 AM »

Update:

Had a BT case engineer assigned.
They looked over the issue from the 3 engineers. They originally wanted to schedule another engineer (lol), but I talked them out of it, as I didn't see any value in it.
I mentioned BT Wholesale was spoken about on the call with regards to capacity earlier on in my issue.

The case engineer took a couple of days to speak to BT Wholesale, who said they would cease and recreate my line on their system, which may resolve the issue.

Result: My issue is almost fully resolved, with my pings returning much closer to normal during streaming/downloading. They're not perfect, but they are much better and I can see a big change in the TBB quality monitor graphs.

old:
https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/quality/share/12b1d1bdd3a7fd42fc84df72d102009d53a40ab2-03-03-2019

new:
https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/quality/share/9f2df6f8d2098aef0ef570a8b9e15a500bd66bef-12-03-2019


« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 12:00:43 PM by Reaps »
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Reaps

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Re: High latency while small downloads/streaming on another device
« Reply #47 on: March 20, 2019, 12:45:28 PM »

It looks like I had a less congested night, where my pings are still high throughout this the evening.

I'm now waiting for the case engineer to call me today, as I would like to start to discuss my options with regards to contracts if I'm no longer getting what I used to - out of the Fibre connection. (ignoring max throughput).

He last mentioned he was going to speak to the experts in BT wholesale to see if there's absolutely anything else they can do for me, before going down that route. I'll wait for the call today, before updating this thread.

As a side note, my line is measured at 280 meters from my DSLAM. Looks like over the last 2-3 years of living here, uptake of fibre in my area has increased crosstalk, with a low SNR of 3.2, this is why my speeds are now down to 61Mbps, from 74Mbps, actual not attainable.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2019, 12:50:52 PM by Reaps »
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flood

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Re: High latency while small downloads/streaming on another device
« Reply #48 on: April 06, 2019, 09:52:08 PM »

It looks like I had a less congested night, where my pings are still high throughout this the evening.

I'm now waiting for the case engineer to call me today, as I would like to start to discuss my options with regards to contracts if I'm no longer getting what I used to - out of the Fibre connection. (ignoring max throughput).

He last mentioned he was going to speak to the experts in BT wholesale to see if there's absolutely anything else they can do for me, before going down that route. I'll wait for the call today, before updating this thread.

As a side note, my line is measured at 280 meters from my DSLAM. Looks like over the last 2-3 years of living here, uptake of fibre in my area has increased crosstalk, with a low SNR of 3.2, this is why my speeds are now down to 61Mbps, from 74Mbps, actual not attainable.

Hi Reaps, I'm suffering from the exact same issue (Although you seem to have got it sorted from the looks of things)

I have SQM QoS on my router to eliminate lag when there is heavy downloading going on but the SQM has stopped doing its job making gaming a nightmare

I'm with BT and have been dealing with this latency bug for the past two weeks. I've exhausted all forms of troubleshooting on my end to no avail so I really want an engineer to come visit and do some tests.

Can you tell me what you said to BT in order to get an engineer visit? Since this is a latency issue more than a speed issue would I be expected to pay for the visit? I really don't want to pay 100 for something outside of my control  :no:

Also, I don't know if you ever did some dslreports tests when you had this issue, (but if you did) could you tell me if it looked similar to how mine looks at the moment? Right now, my connection struggles getting to max bandwidth during the test and suffers severe latency on startup.

Here is my thread on another forum where I tried to fix this issue, you can see a video of the test about halfway down the page  :fingers:

https://forum.openwrt.org/t/sqm-not-working-correctly-wndr3800-18-06/34304
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Reaps

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Re: High latency while small downloads/streaming on another device
« Reply #49 on: April 09, 2019, 07:54:33 PM »

Hi Flood,

Hope you get your issue resolved.

BT updated my line to use a 55/10 profile, to see if that 'changed' something to fix my pings. It did - it made them much worse.
Interestingly, I just fired up my 4k bt sport channel - checked my router and could see iptv was streaming it at 30Mbps, a little higher than I expected. Checked my ping - expected it to be all over the place, nope... completely flat - as if nothing was happening on the network.

This goes towards the thought process that BT are prioritizing IPTV way above normal data traffic - which is why my pings are normal when streaming 4k IPTV, but terrible when streaming 1080p through netflix/twitch.tv

I'm now looking at a move to a new provider, after multiple conversations with a good case manager, who's letting me leave free of charge.
Zen will likely get my money going forward - Ill report back with any findings.

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flood

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Re: High latency while small downloads/streaming on another device
« Reply #50 on: April 09, 2019, 09:16:39 PM »

Hi Flood,

Hope you get your issue resolved.

BT updated my line to use a 55/10 profile, to see if that 'changed' something to fix my pings. It did - it made them much worse.
Interestingly, I just fired up my 4k bt sport channel - checked my router and could see iptv was streaming it at 30Mbps, a little higher than I expected. Checked my ping - expected it to be all over the place, nope... completely flat - as if nothing was happening on the network.

This goes towards the thought process that BT are prioritizing IPTV way above normal data traffic - which is why my pings are normal when streaming 4k IPTV, but terrible when streaming 1080p through netflix/twitch.tv

I'm now looking at a move to a new provider, after multiple conversations with a good case manager, who's letting me leave free of charge.
Zen will likely get my money going forward - Ill report back with any findings.



So when the engineers came round are you saying they couldn't identify any type of fault? If so, that doesn't bode well for me :s

Would you mind doing a test on dslreports.com? Could you tell me if you experience really bad pings at the start of the test like I do?
https://streamable.com/nmt2i
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Reaps

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Re: High latency while small downloads/streaming on another device
« Reply #51 on: April 09, 2019, 10:08:45 PM »

Sure.

My test looks almost identical to yours, with a slightly higher buffer bloat throughout. My upload test smashes it the worst though.

When the engineers came to my property each time, no one found a fault, which is why it eventually went up to openreach wholesale (assuming they do the backend configs) - who did the cease/renew each time.
It doesn't bode well to anyone to be honest, if they are causing issues by having too much iptv traffic or having the prioritizing misconfigured somewhere along the route, it's going to be a long time before they fix it I'd imagine.
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Chrysalis

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Re: High latency while small downloads/streaming on another device
« Reply #52 on: April 12, 2019, 05:23:40 AM »

I recently found pretty decent improvements to my QoS, but it was a long time to get to where I am.

I found basic fq-codel to be pretty much as good as it gets for improving my egress during busy periods but it wasnt so good for ingress, given I do lots of downloading, watching streams etc. and not that much uploading (maybe sending emails, and uploading data to cloud drive on occasion).  I decided to go back to a optimal setup for ingress again

For that I found nothing better than HFSC which I have implemented via ALTQ on pfsense.

Now the original setup I had a while back was to set the overall size of the shared queue about 5% lower than my max possible throughput, but then not leave much buffer from that to the child queues.  I also didnt take advantage of the service curve feature where you can have the traffic run at a temporary rate limit before it goes to a ongoing rate limit.

Take a look at this pic. https://imgur.com/a/Dm3YDmh (also attached to post)

What I did was set for the first 10ms a much lower rate limit, which makes the slow start and congestion control behave different, so its less aggressive, but you can see ultimately the throughput is still almost at full speed, it just has some breathing space as shown in the dumeter graph which makes all the difference in QoS.  That graph was a 32 threaded steam download as well.  Also the limit of the parent queue is much closer to my max throughput (98%), and the 3% I saved I reduced the child queues so there was more space for higher priority queues like icmp.

Now the other issue, is when you dealing with many download threads in applications like steam, you ideally need a ton of extra overhead for better shaping, so I borrowed an idea from Carl which was to route my steam traffic through an external network, and shape it on that device so before it reaches my network, its already "tamed" traffic.  I dont know if the above service curve trick would have removed the need for that taming, but that result is with both things combined.

Obviously when you doing things like this you need an isp which provides consistent performance e.g. shaping at say 90% of your line rate wont do squat if congestion puts attainable throughput at say 60%.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2019, 05:43:23 AM by Chrysalis »
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Reaps

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Re: High latency while small downloads/streaming on another device
« Reply #53 on: April 26, 2019, 09:12:56 PM »

Today was the day!
Moved from BT to Zen.

Very happy with my new low latency
https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/quality/share/3231b72aaeddbe9affa9fa90faf557992b6ebe08

Graph has been great since plugging in this morning.. had a couple of GB download earlier at full speed is the little blip in the graph you can see, as that finished, I also changed the local LAN settings to match my previous router. Absolutely on top of the moon having a decent ISP again. :)
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