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Author Topic: High latency while small downloads/streaming on another device  (Read 9021 times)

Reaps

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High latency while small downloads/streaming on another device
« on: February 08, 2019, 04:38:26 PM »

Hi all,

First time poster, but was advised by a good friend to post here to get some good info.

Equipment:
I have a HG612/Ubiquiti EdgeMax setup.
I have BT Fibre 80/20, usually get around 70 down, 18-20 up, roughly.

I've swapped my equipment back to the BT HomeHub for BT to run some tests, but as far as BT can tell - there's nothing wrong with my line, as my throughput is within threshold.

Issue:
Pings are high (10 - 150ms) - when using a small amount of bandwidth. (1mbps)
Pings are high (20 - 150ms) - when using a medium amount of bandwidth (3mbps)
Pings are high (70 - 250ms) - when using a large amount of bandwidth (7mbps)
Pings are low (10-15ms) - when doing absolutely nothing on the network.

This is a little frustrating for the gamer in me, high pings are useless in fast paced FPS gaming, so I'm looking for answers. :)
As of the last few days, when there's activity from the wife, watching Netflix or streaming iPlayer - my latency rockets, as per above - my gaming starts to warp.

Code: [Select]

Tracing route to www.google.co.uk [216.58.204.67]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.254
2 4 ms 4 ms 4 ms 172.16.16.61
3 * * * Request timed out.
4 10 ms 10 ms 10 ms 31.55.187.180
5 11 ms 10 ms 10 ms core1-hu0-6-0-8.southbank.ukcore.bt.net [213.121.192.76]
6 11 ms 11 ms 11 ms 109.159.252.82
7 11 ms 11 ms 11 ms 109.159.253.73
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 10 ms 11 ms 10 ms 108.170.233.232
10 11 ms 11 ms 11 ms 74.125.242.83
11 13 ms 13 ms 13 ms 209.85.250.185
12 12 ms 12 ms 11 ms 216.239.58.2
13 14 ms 13 ms 14 ms 108.170.246.161
14 11 ms 11 ms 11 ms 108.170.238.123
15 11 ms 11 ms 11 ms lhr25s13-in-f67.1e100.net [216.58.204.67]

Trace complete.

While downloading at 7.8MB/s during the day - worse at night

Code: [Select]

Tracing route to lhr25s13-in-f67.1e100.net [216.58.204.67]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.254
2 30 ms 20 ms 15 ms 172.16.16.61
3 * * * Request timed out.
4 40 ms 33 ms 30 ms 31.55.187.180
5 49 ms 43 ms 55 ms core1-hu0-6-0-8.southbank.ukcore.bt.net [213.121.192.76]
6 47 ms 51 ms 50 ms 109.159.252.82
7 70 ms 67 ms 54 ms 109.159.253.73
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 64 ms 64 ms 70 ms 108.170.233.232
10 69 ms 68 ms 53 ms 74.125.242.83
11 53 ms 47 ms 53 ms 209.85.250.185
12 55 ms 51 ms 48 ms 216.239.58.2
13 64 ms 62 ms 56 ms 108.170.246.129
14 58 ms 50 ms 46 ms 108.170.238.123
15 72 ms 62 ms 60 ms lhr25s13-in-f67.1e100.net [216.58.204.67]

Trace complete.

This is the SNR from the BTHomeHub, i'll try and grab some out of my HG612 when I swap it back later.

19:08:29, 07 Feb. DSL Link Up: Down Rate=72420Kbps, Up Rate=20000Kbps; SNR Margin Down=3.4dB, Up=6.7dB

Any thoughts why I get such high latency when the wife is watching Netflix?
I can emulate this by using Steam, to download a game patch update, while limiting the update to 3MB/s.

This never occurred until a few days ago. I also get the odd lost packet

Pings to www.bbc.co.uk over the last couple of hours, with very little in the way of usage on my network:
Packets: Sent = 19159, Received = 19110, Lost = 49 (0% loss)

Thank you, appreciate it.
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d2d4j

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Re: High latency while small downloads/streaming on another device
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2019, 06:39:58 PM »

Hi

What device is running on 172.16.16.61

Could you post same 2 tests with just bt homehub connected

Many thanks

John
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ejs

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Re: High latency while small downloads/streaming on another device
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2019, 07:39:09 PM »

What device is running on 172.16.16.61

Some large device of BTWholesale (MSE/BRAS). It'll be the other end of the PPP connection.
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d2d4j

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Re: High latency while small downloads/streaming on another device
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2019, 08:15:50 PM »

Hi

@ets - I thought that but I wanted to be sure that both hg/edge were not setup separate and was in bridge mode

Many thanks

John
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Reaps

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Re: High latency while small downloads/streaming on another device
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2019, 01:05:55 AM »

Hi there,

HG is setup in bridged mode.
I get the same exact symptoms while using both homehub and the Edgerouter. I've played with both, but the HG/Edge configuration gives me a lot more stats to work with for these diagnostics.
You're correct, 172.16.16.61 is BTs device, down the other end of the copper.

Thanks!
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johnson

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Re: High latency while small downloads/streaming on another device
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2019, 01:15:31 AM »

I believe the edgerouters support SQM QoS... have you tried it? Works great on my connection, 15-20ms even when fully loaded.
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Reaps

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Re: High latency while small downloads/streaming on another device
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2019, 01:39:11 PM »

I've not tried it yet.

I can't seem to understand the options for QoS on the edgemax though.
All I want to do, is prioritize my gaming pc above everything else.

Have any tips dude?
Thanks
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MrMike

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Re: High latency while small downloads/streaming on another device
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2019, 04:35:40 PM »

In the Edgemax router click on the QoS tab. You'll probably want to set the values up like in the attached screenshot based on your previous comment of "usually get around 70 down, 18-20 up, roughly." Ensure the drop-down box is set to "Mbits/sec". You can of course later fine tune these values based on your speed tests at the time. But this should give you an indication if QoS will help with your setup. The values are basically whatever your speed test gives you minus a couple of Mbits/sec. There are advanced settings for fine tuning but I never usually bother with these.
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Reaps

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Re: High latency while small downloads/streaming on another device
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2019, 06:11:52 PM »

That's very helpful! I've enabled it.

Thanks!

What is this effectively doing though?
All traffic is getting QoS applied but limiting my maximum to a little under the normal max that I see in the speedtests?
« Last Edit: February 09, 2019, 09:00:20 PM by Reaps »
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snadge

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Re: High latency while small downloads/streaming on another device
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2019, 04:35:16 PM »

I'm curious about this too as QoS was one of the reasons I got the Zyxel 8924, am I right in thinking that the little bit of throughput that is left over is used strictly for whatever QoS service requires it?

i.e. 70M - 68M = 2M (2Mbit lane reserved for gaming traffic / 68Mbit for all other)...?
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Aquiss - 900/110/16ms - TP-Link AR73

Reaps

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Re: High latency while small downloads/streaming on another device
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2019, 09:01:03 PM »

Still getting these issues.
Can't play games while netflix/streaming/twitch/youtube is being used. Ping is all over the place:

Here are my DSL stats, anything look out of the ordinary?


Stats recorded 10 Feb 2019 20:58:27

DSLAM type / SW version:   BDCM:0xb12d (177.45) / v0xb12d
Modem/router firmware:     AnnexA version - A2pv6C038m.d24j
DSL mode:                  VDSL2 Profile 17a
Status:                    Showtime
Uptime:                    2 days 4 hours 17 min 31 sec
Resyncs:                   0 (since 10 Feb 2019 20:58:24)
         
            Downstream   Upstream
Line attenuation (dB):     14.7      0.0
Signal attenuation (dB):   Not monitored      
Connection speed (kbps):   73406      20000
SNR margin (dB):           3.2      9.4
Power (dBm):               13.3      6.5
Interleave depth:          8      1
INP:                       53.00      0
G.INP:                     Enabled      Not enabled
Vectoring status:          5 (VECT_UNCONFIGURED)      

RSCorr/RS (%):             0.0067      0.0000
RSUnCorr/RS (%):           0.0000      0.0000
ES/hour:                   0      0

This is my TBB ping graph:

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/quality/share/3231b72aaeddbe9affa9fa90faf557992b6ebe08





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johnson

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Re: High latency while small downloads/streaming on another device
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2019, 01:02:22 AM »

What values did you put in the SQM settings? It can take some testing to find the right ones, try reducing the download & upload values little by little each time testing with a long ping to bbc or similar while running a speedtest using fast.com or speedtest.net.

You can also use the dslreports tester which specifically monitors buffer bloat:
http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest

If the issue was due to errors on your line then the problem should be apparent even when you are not streaming/downloading.
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Reaps

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Re: High latency while small downloads/streaming on another device
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2019, 09:42:25 AM »

What values did you put in the SQM settings? It can take some testing to find the right ones, try reducing the download & upload values little by little each time testing with a long ping to bbc or similar while running a speedtest using fast.com or speedtest.net.

You can also use the dslreports tester which specifically monitors buffer bloat:
http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest

If the issue was due to errors on your line then the problem should be apparent even when you are not streaming/downloading.

Thanks for the quick reply.
I put in 55/15 into the QoS settings.

At this stage, I don't want to have to work around a problem that BT are having, to get back to where it was, so I've removed it to conduct more testing.

The problem only exists when streaming/downloading. I know you probably think its normal to have an elevated ping during downloading, but here is my ping to www.bbc.co.uk while the wife's watching Netflix (not in 4k, which is effectively 1-2MB/s).



Here's the link to the speedtest:
http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/45895351
« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 09:56:04 AM by Reaps »
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j0hn

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Re: High latency while small downloads/streaming on another device
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2019, 09:53:43 AM »

Here are my DSL stats, anything look out of the ordinary?

It's very unlikely to be a problem with the xDSL part of the link so DslStats won't show anything.

Quote
Pings are high (10 - 150ms) - when using a small amount of bandwidth. (1mbps)

That sounds pretty extreme and I can't see how tweaking QoS settings is going to help it.

Your BQM is pretty similar to mine.
I only get the 50-60ms+ peaks when the line is being used heavily.
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Talktalk FTTP 550/75 - Speedtest - BQM

Reaps

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Re: High latency while small downloads/streaming on another device
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2019, 10:14:32 AM »

Repeating the tests has found buffer bloat, sometimes reported as B, sometimes as C and sometimes as D.

http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/45895723

Is there anything I can ask BT to do, in order to resolve this?
Like move me to another port their end, which may be less congested etc?
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