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Author Topic: Plusnet - Speed lower than Openreach DSL Checker Estimate.  (Read 6265 times)

vultura

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Plusnet - Speed lower than Openreach DSL Checker Estimate.
« on: February 05, 2019, 11:15:27 PM »

Hello to all.

I am posting here in the hopes of getting somewhere with what I feel is a poorly performing connection.

Have been on Plusnet FTTC 80/20 for over 7 years.

A little over two years or so ago I felt the speed had dropped and started a thread on the PN forum, but I didn't push too hard at the time as the speed was within the estimates for an impacted line.

A HG612 was purchased (to replace Openreach ECI unit) and duly unlocked to get access to the stats.  Logging was done with HG612 Modem Stats from this very site, though it sadly ceased logging at some point and I was unable to get it working again.

I switched the standard RJ11 cable for a shielded 0.5m adslnation one.

A MK4 filtered faceplate was purchased to replace the earlier one installed by the broadband engineer when fibre was first installed.

Using various internet sites I continued to research possible internal causes that I could resolve.  It was suggested somewhere that mains interference could be an issue, so I purchased a Mainstrab plug-in filter from eBay and plugged the modem PSU into that and the Mainstrab into the 13amp socket. That did have a positive effect, but only single figure % increase in speed, but it was an improvement.

In December 2018 I resurrected my thread on the PN forum, as I had noticed the BT DSL checker estimates had changed, which meant the line was below both the clean and impacted line figures.

In an effort to resolve the issue I was supplied with a new Hub One, which I installed.  It did not help sadly.  I did log the stats from it using routerstats though.

An engineer appointment was made.  He turned up, unscrewed the existing master socket and attached a test device to the bare wires and he concluded that there no electrical fault with the copper pair.  He then fitted a new 5C Master Socket.  Had I known that he would take the old socket and faceplate with him when he left I would have put the old faceplate back on and put the MK4 away.  According to his test equipment the sync was 53Mbps.  With the Hub One sync was 51Mbps.  The engineer stated the speed I was getting was about right and that I should get back onto my provider to see if anything more could be done.

At no point did he leave my premises to visit the cab and from the direction he arrived I don't think he had been there before he came to visit.

Plusnet have said there is nothing more they can do and they will waive any early termination fees if I am in contract and wish to leave.  Not much point as all DSL providers use the same infrastructure, so any issues are going to remain if I move away from PN.

Asking for advice on what else I could try it was suggested that a different modem/router might increase sync by a couple of Mbps.  I ended up here and the Zyxel units seemed to be well received.  I started looking at the options via eBay and ended up buying a used VMG8924-B10A for less than £20.  I did ask ejs for recommendations on the Plusnet forum and the response was I quote - "Zyxel VMG8324-B10A, VMG8924-B10A or VMG1312-B10A are probably the preferred models for people who want the best modem and one that provides detailed line stats.

Anything else with a BCM 63168 chip should be slightly better than the HG612 (which has the older BCM 6368 ). That includes the BT HomeHub 5B, which might be quite cheap.
"  So it looked like I had made a good choice.

The Zyxel has now been running (in bridge mode) for a little over a week, but the sync speed is lower (48Mbps) than it was with the Hub One.  I do have a machine connected to it running DSLStats, but I don't think I have set correct to log everything that you lovely people might want to see in order to try to help me.

I am on an ECI cabinet.

Current estimates -


Thanks for reading.










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burakkucat

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Re: Plusnet - Speed lower than Openreach DSL Checker Estimate.
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2019, 11:27:15 PM »

There are two, related, facts that you have not yet provided --
  • How you have made your throughput speed tests.
  • The actual result(s) you obtained from the test(s).
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vultura

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Re: Plusnet - Speed lower than Openreach DSL Checker Estimate.
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2019, 11:33:37 PM »

There are two, related, facts that you have not yet provided --
  • How you have made your throughput speed tests.
  • The actual result(s) you obtained from the test(s).

Thanks for reply b*cat.

Silly me, I always forget something.

1)  Tests done via wired connection. Was always advised that was best way.

2) Results of tests late last year, wireless on machine turned off.  HG612 connected to faceplate on socket.



« Last Edit: February 05, 2019, 11:36:13 PM by vultura »
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vultura

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Re: Plusnet - Speed lower than Openreach DSL Checker Estimate.
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2019, 11:38:59 PM »

Stats from HG612 on 29th Dec, after being connected to test socket.

xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 15039 Kbps, Downstream rate = 51496 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 15210 Kbps, Downstream rate = 52445 Kbps

Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 6.1 6.0
Attn(dB): 16.0 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 6.9 6.8
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: 18 17
B: 239 238
M: 1 1
T: 64 64
R: 14 16
S: 0.1456 0.5001
L: 13952 4079
D: 1 1
I: 254 255
N: 254 255
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 117397023 775961
OHFErr: 900 58
RS: 3218414892 1867625
RSCorr: 29473 1549
RSUnCorr: 5740 0

Bearer 0
HEC: 4064 0
OCD: 136 0
LCD: 136 0
Total Cells: 1911957581 0
Data Cells: 999964808 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 737 58
SES: 0 0
UAS: 26 26
AS: 274645

Bearer 0
INP: 0.00 0.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 2.33 8.03
OR: 82.07 22.90
AgR: 52526.78 15232.74

Bitswap: 178645/178793 187/195

Total time = 1 days 4 hours 17 min 51 sec
FEC: 29473 1549
CRC: 900 58
ES: 737 58
SES: 0 0
UAS: 26 26
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 2 min 51 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 39 10
CRC: 2 1
ES: 2 1
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 1 day time = 4 hours 17 min 51 sec
FEC: 958 96
CRC: 68 8
ES: 51 8
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC: 12527 404
CRC: 211 21
ES: 180 21
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Since Link time = 3 days 4 hours 17 min 23 sec
FEC: 29473 1549
CRC: 900 58
ES: 737 58
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
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boost

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Re: Plusnet - Speed lower than Openreach DSL Checker Estimate.
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2019, 01:07:36 AM »

What was the highest sync speed you ever saw, previously? Did it ever touch the limit, 80/20?
Failing that, what was the highest speedtest result you ever saw, back in the good old days? :)

Is the HG612 still plugged in? If not, why not? The line stats may have changed significantly, I suppose? You have an interleave depth of one which seems a bit odd. Given the ES, I assume that may now be higher but have no real idea because I've always been on Huawei cabs.

It may be worth posting the HLOG / QLN data for some of the experts on here, along with the MSAN vendor ID and all the other little bits and bobs that you never know might help :)
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vultura

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Re: Plusnet - Speed lower than Openreach DSL Checker Estimate.
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2019, 01:56:35 AM »

What was the highest sync speed you ever saw, previously? Did it ever touch the limit, 80/20?
Failing that, what was the highest speedtest result you ever saw, back in the good old days? :)

Is the HG612 still plugged in? If not, why not? The line stats may have changed significantly, I suppose? You have an interleave depth of one which seems a bit odd. Given the ES, I assume that may now be higher but have no real idea because I've always been on Huawei cabs.

It may be worth posting the HLOG / QLN data for some of the experts on here, along with the MSAN vendor ID and all the other little bits and bobs that you never know might help :)

Thanks for reply boost.

My original Openreach modem was an ECI B-FOCuS V-2FUb/r Rev B, which I couldn't access the stats on and so have no idea what the highest sync was.  Since I have been monitoring I would guess at maybe 52Mbps or so.  Actual throughput has never gone above 6Mbs in the last couple of years or so.

The HG612 is sat in a drawer, I hoped the Zyxel would be a more modern/quicker replacement.

I hope I get some of this right...


Stats recorded 06 Feb 2019 01:43:41

DSLAM type / SW version:   IFTN:0xb206 (178.6) / v0xb206
Modem/router firmware:     AnnexA version - A2pv6F039v.d26a
DSL mode:                  VDSL2 Profile 17a
Status:                    Showtime
Uptime:                    9 days 11 hours 20 min 19 sec
Resyncs:                   0 (since 06 Feb 2019 01:29:05)
         
            Downstream   Upstream
Line attenuation (dB):     16.3      0.0
Signal attenuation (dB):   Not available on VDSL2      
Connection speed (kbps):   48976      15001
SNR margin (dB):           5.8      6.2
Power (dBm):               6.9      6.8
Interleave depth:          1      1
INP:                       0      0
G.INP:                     Not enabled      Not enabled
Vectoring status:          5 (VECT_UNCONFIGURED)      

RSCorr/RS (%):             N/A      1.9148
RSUnCorr/RS (%):           N/A      0.0000
ES/hour:                   19.6      1.15


xdslctl info --stats
xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 15182 Kbps, Downstream rate = 48949 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 15001 Kbps, Downstream rate = 48976 Kbps

Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        5.8             6.2
Attn(dB):        16.3            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        6.9             6.8

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           19              17
B:              239             238
M:              1               1
T:              64              64
R:              0               16
S:              0.1559          0.5071
L:              12312           4023
D:              1               1
I:              240             255
N:              240             255

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            326704349               1638329
OHFErr:         9501            494
RS:             0               1769903
RSCorr:         0               6695
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            23414           0
OCD:            461             0
LCD:            461             0
Total Cells:    4062609601              0
Data Cells:     1553157846              0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             6655            489
SES:            4               0
UAS:            396             396
AS:             818599

                        Bearer 0
INP:            0.00            0.00
INPRein:        0.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            2.50            8.14
OR:             79.84           22.59
AgR:            49056.37        15023.61

Bitswap:        66507/66562             704/712

Total time = 9 days 11 hours 29 min 56 sec
FEC:            0               6695
CRC:            9501            494
ES:             6655            489
SES:            4               0
UAS:            396             396
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 15 minutes time = 14 min 56 sec
FEC:            0               3
CRC:            5               1
ES:             5               1
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            0               22
CRC:            3               0
ES:             3               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 1 day time = 11 hours 29 min 56 sec
FEC:            0               298
CRC:            488             15
ES:             383             15
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:            0               721
CRC:            724             47
ES:             582             47
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Since Link time = 9 days 11 hours 23 min 18 sec
FEC:            0               6695
CRC:            9501            494
ES:             6655            489
SES:            4               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
NTR: mipsCntAtNtr=0 ncoCntAtNtr=0
 > {\rtf1}









« Last Edit: February 06, 2019, 02:07:54 AM by vultura »
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vultura

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Re: Plusnet - Speed lower than Openreach DSL Checker Estimate.
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2019, 02:06:18 AM »

GEA Test Results



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j0hn

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Re: Plusnet - Speed lower than Openreach DSL Checker Estimate.
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2019, 02:49:29 AM »

You have an interleave depth of one which seems a bit odd. Given the ES, I assume that may now be higher but have no real idea because I've always been on Huawei cabs.

Interleaving depth of 1 is simply fastpath, on either DSLAM vendor.

In all honesty the Hlog looks normal (it had the usual "tail end droop" we see in most ECI lines) and there's nothing out of the ordinary on the QLN.

The gradual loss of sync it to be expected from crosstalk unfortunately.
It sounds like you have tried everything you can at your end.

You've tried everything I would recommend.
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Chrysalis

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Re: Plusnet - Speed lower than Openreach DSL Checker Estimate.
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2019, 05:37:54 AM »

Well you just about meeting the handback threshold, and you not failing the GEA test, so I think getting openreach to do anything would be difficult.

If you changed isp, a estimate is likely to be low meaning a new isp probably wouldnt do anything related to low sync speed either.  Sadly you just a loser of the crosstalk lottery, if there is a line fault its not severe enough to take you out of the performance thresholds.
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ktz392837

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Re: Plusnet - Speed lower than Openreach DSL Checker Estimate.
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2019, 09:18:21 AM »

My car used to be able go at least 80mph but it can only go at 50mph now.  Mechanic says that is perfectly acceptable.

I know it is not a great analogy but in my opinion it has some truth to it.

Surely if you are below the threshold that is THE fault and it warrants more than a tough just too bad for you engineer visit?

Why don't BT just set everyone's threshold to 2Mb and get rid of 90% of the engineers as those checker estimates are next to useless and if all the engineer is going to do is say tough what is the point of the visit in the first place?


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j0hn

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Re: Plusnet - Speed lower than Openreach DSL Checker Estimate.
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2019, 09:41:11 AM »

Some ISP's may put in the right type of request to OpenReach to request they try improve the line speed.
It's very possible another pair would get a higher sync as it may suffer less crosstalk.

It sounds like Plusnet would rather let the OP leave penalty free than make any real effort to help them.

I just read the 1st post again and it left me slightly confused.

Quote
He then fitted a new 5C Master Socket.  Had I known that he would take the old socket and faceplate with him when he left I would have put the old faceplate back on and put the MK4 away. 

The MK4 is the faceplate that fits on the NTE5C.
So what did he take take away with him?
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ktz392837

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Re: Plusnet - Speed lower than Openreach DSL Checker Estimate.
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2019, 11:36:13 AM »

This is what irks me more than ever haven't Plusnet already told OR there is a fault it shouldn't be Plusnet doing OR job for them? 

Assuming Plusnet reported the fault as below threshold shouldn't the engineer who visited actually do something to solve the problem?

It was a serious question before what was the point of the engineer visit?  Surely the engineer had more than 5 minutes to plug in his ”modem" and swap the socket that did nothing other than confirm there is a fault?




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vultura

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Re: Plusnet - Speed lower than Openreach DSL Checker Estimate.
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2019, 11:46:04 AM »

My car used to be able go at least 80mph but it can only go at 50mph now.  Mechanic says that is perfectly acceptable.

I know it is not a great analogy but in my opinion it has some truth to it.

Surely if you are below the threshold that is THE fault and it warrants more than a tough just too bad for you engineer visit?

Logically it should warrant more imho.  However I do understand that Openreach are constrained by finances and some fixes may well be uneconomical.

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vultura

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Re: Plusnet - Speed lower than Openreach DSL Checker Estimate.
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2019, 11:51:39 AM »

Some ISP's may put in the right type of request to OpenReach to request they try improve the line speed.

It sounds like Plusnet would rather let the OP leave penalty free than make any real effort to help them.

I just read the 1st post again and it left me slightly confused.

The MK4 is the faceplate that fits on the NTE5C.
So what did he take take away with him?

Sorry j0hn for confusing you.  I have muddled things up in my head, what I did previously was to switch the NTE5A from a what I thought was a MK2 faceplate to a MK3 one as reports said it had better filtering.

The NTE5C and MK4 might work well enough for most, but are more visually more intrusive and the faceplate readily moves.
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vultura

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Re: Plusnet - Speed lower than Openreach DSL Checker Estimate.
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2019, 12:08:16 PM »

This is what irks me more than ever haven't Plusnet already told OR there is a fault it shouldn't be Plusnet doing OR job for them? 

Assuming Plusnet reported the fault as below threshold shouldn't the engineer who visited actually do something to solve the problem?

It was a serious question before what was the point of the engineer visit?  Surely the engineer had more than 5 minutes to plug in his ”modem" and swap the socket that did nothing other than confirm there is a fault?

From the PN ticket it states -

New router in place.
Circuit below estimate still.

Engineer was with me for a little under 30 minutes.  I had a hunch he wouldn't do much, as he arrived around 3.45pm as it was getting dark and so logically he wouldn't be looking at external faults.

One thing I have forgotten to mention is that sync speeds dropped slightly after his visit.  I assume that will be differences in the lineboxes and faceplates.

Copy of his notes from ticket -

Engineer Notes:
 ****** Checklist questions *******
 On site contact name -
 Is EU setup and modem OK ? - Yes
 Is VDSL modem connected via microfilters (Offer to fit SSFP) ? - No
 Is VDSL modem in sync ? - Yes
 Are SSFP and connections OK ? - Yes
 What was the result of the PQT at SSFP ? - Pass - Green
 Has any star wiring been isolated on the network side of the SSFP ? (N/A if star wiring not present) ? - No
 After the star wiring is isolated, is sync speed at NTE OK ? - No
 Is EU physical set up OK (PC/Router wiring connected correctly) ? - Yes
 Does on site contact confirm that this is the normal set up of their equipment ? - Yes
 Have you been provided with CP's test page account details ? - Yes
 Are you able to connect to CP's homepage from customer router using end user PC ? - Yes
 Have you confirmed results with on site contact ? - Yes
 Did a joint meet with CP's engineer take place ? - No
 Is VDSL modem powered up on arrival at EU premises ? - Yes
 Can connection to CP's network from eng laptop or HHT be achieved ? - Yes
 *** End of checklist questions ***
Line tests ok pqt passed all green and line running at 50 meg plus Eu says line not achieving estimate but is still high and very stable

 Estimates are:
 Download: 78.9 - 57.5
 Upload: 20 - 18.7
 MGALS: 52.6



Logged
Has anyone seen my signature, it seems to have disappeared, along with Openreach turning on G.INP on ECI cabinets ever again.
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