Kitz ADSL Broadband Information
adsl spacer  
Support this site
Home Broadband ISPs Tech Routers Wiki Forum
 
     
   Compare ISP   Rate your ISP
   Glossary   Glossary
 
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Author Topic: Does this sound like an HR fault ?  (Read 1449 times)

toulouse

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 572
  • I like cheesecake !!!
Does this sound like an HR fault ?
« on: January 30, 2019, 11:28:28 AM »

Hello everyone,

I appear to have a fault on my telephone service, primarily a LOT of noise on the line during calls. I am with Utility Warehouse for both telephone and FTTC broadband, and I believe these services are provided by TalkTalk. I tried running the 17070 test which is often referred to in resolving telephone problems, but all that does is identify the line with my telephone number. I'm running DslStats (v6.5.9), and when either I initiate a call or there is an incoming call the SNR margin drops from a normal 6.0 - 8.4 to 0.5dbM, and then returns to a normalish reading at the end of the call. Another effect of the present fault is that due to the loops that I was asked to jump through to test the line, my Interleaving has increased from ~740/1 to the present level of 1375/62 with a resultant drop in speed from a normal 37000 - 38000/5600 to 32400/4905.

I'm guessing that this problem is what is generally referred to as an HR fault, and additionally that it doesn't matter what I do with my installed equipment, it will not be resolved without the intervention of a telephone engineer. I reported the problem to Utility Warehouse, my service provider, who requested that I unplug my DECT phone and plug in an analogue phone to the Test socket and monitor the problem for a couple of days, during which I have identified the associated problem with my FTTC broadband.

Needless to say, I would welcome any advice on how I might get this fault rectified from anyone on here.

Thanks

toulouse
Logged
Utility Warehouse (via TalkTalk)
FTTC 40/10
ZyXEL VMG8924-B10A
ECI (approx 750 metres)

People tell me that I ought to get out more. But in the words of the great Homer J Simpson, "Yeah, but what ya gonna do ?"

j0hn

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 2634
Re: Does this sound like an HR fault ?
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2019, 12:07:40 PM »

The 32400 is a banded figure so your line may be stuck at that sync for a long time.
This is triggered by too many resyncs and often requires a DLM reset to remove it.

It's definitely not normal behaviour for the SNRM to crash so much when a call is made.
Is it a corded phone or a wireless DECT phone?

Make sure to run the same test with a plain corded phone if it is a DECT phone in use.

I would report it to my ISP and add that the instability has also capped/banded the sync rate.

Any noise present during a Quiet Line Test needs reported.
Although with LLU lines there is no specific QLT test on 17070 it does (or certainly used to) still go quiet for long enough to determine if their is an issue.
Logged
Plusnet FTTC 80/20 -  ECI now Huawei cab
retx low @ 3dB target SNRM
Zyxel VMG1312-B10A bridged with 1508 MTU + Asus RT-AC68U running Asuswrt-Merlin

toulouse

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 572
  • I like cheesecake !!!
Re: Does this sound like an HR fault ?
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2019, 12:23:04 PM »

Thanks j0hn, and in response to your questions, I was asked to plug in an analogue phone during the 'line test' that the ISP carried out on Friday. But as is often the case with this type of fault, that made no difference at all. I have now reverted back to my DECT phone, but could just as easily leave the analogue phone plugged in. Ok, back to the corded phone and still the problem persists.

I guess I'll have to get back to Utility Warehouse and get them to arrange an engineer visit.

toulouse
Logged
Utility Warehouse (via TalkTalk)
FTTC 40/10
ZyXEL VMG8924-B10A
ECI (approx 750 metres)

People tell me that I ought to get out more. But in the words of the great Homer J Simpson, "Yeah, but what ya gonna do ?"

Weaver

  • Addicted Kitizen
  • *****
  • Posts: 7863
  • Retd sw dev; A&A; 4 ◊ 7km ADSL2; IPv6; Firebrick
Re: Does this sound like an HR fault ?
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2019, 12:45:57 PM »

I would check for a bad filter - micro-filter or SSFP. I had a particular telephone which did this and double micro-filtering cured it. Iím not saying that it isnít a line fault, it probably is, but I would just swap out the filter or use no filter at all - having disconnected all phones - and re-test.
Logged

siofjofj

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 25
Re: Does this sound like an HR fault ?
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2019, 12:48:44 PM »

Although with LLU lines there is no specific QLT test on 17070 it does (or certainly used to) still go quiet for long enough to determine if their is an issue.

In my experience 17070 on TalkTalk LLU is useless for quiet line testing as it's either talking or humming, never quiet. One quick option is to just dial 0 (or any digit really) to get rid of the dial tone which will then give you about 5 seconds of silence for testing.

Alternatively you can call 02087599036 which is identical to the 17070 you get on a BT line. My impression is that this number is actually what 17070 on a BT line maps to, though I'm not sure. What I am sure of is that the 17070 "Openreach line test facilities" are definitely available somehow on LLU lines, as an Openreach engineer once initiated a fast test like this on my LLU line (no EE phone signal where I live, so the usual way of doing it via the engineer's iPhone wasn't possible). When they did this I heard lots of DTMF tones in quick succession, so perhaps the Openreach issued butt phones have a feature to automatically dial this number. Perhaps Black Sheep might know.

I'd advise you to try and get a recording of the noise with just the corded phone plugged into the test socket. My experience of a fault with similar symptoms had an Openreach visit where the line was found to be "right when tested", so it's good to have some evidence of the problem to protect yourself from charges.
Logged

burakkucat

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 27671
  • Over the Rainbow Bridge
    • The ELRepo Project
Re: Does this sound like an HR fault ?
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2019, 11:37:54 PM »

Alternatively you can call 02087599036 which is identical to the 17070 you get on a BT line. My impression is that this number is actually what 17070 on a BT line maps to, though I'm not sure. What I am sure of is that the 17070 "Openreach line test facilities" are definitely available somehow on LLU lines, . . .

Yes, you are correct.  ;)

This circuit is defined as nnnnnnnnnnn.
Welcome to your Openreach Line Test Facilities.

  • Ring back.
  • Quiet line test.
  • Fast test.
  • Fast cleanse.
Or clear down.
Logged
:cat:  100% Linux and, previously, Unix. Co-founder of the ELRepo Project.

Please consider making a donation to support the running of this site.

toulouse

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 572
  • I like cheesecake !!!
Re: Does this sound like an HR fault ?
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2019, 04:13:14 PM »

Thanks to those who have responded, and I have now just tested on the telephone number suggested by siofjofj and confirmed by burakkucat - meow !!!

While the quiet line test does indeed reduce the amount of noise on the line, there is still some noise present. I have ordered and received earlier today a replacement VDSL filtered faceplate which I will install after speaking once again to my ISP. Following yesterdays chat with them, I was once again asked to plug a corded phone into the test socket via a microfilter and asked once again to monitor the line  for at least 24 hours. Needless to say this has achieved very little indeed.

How many times do you have to do this before they will accept that there is a fault ?

toulouse
Logged
Utility Warehouse (via TalkTalk)
FTTC 40/10
ZyXEL VMG8924-B10A
ECI (approx 750 metres)

People tell me that I ought to get out more. But in the words of the great Homer J Simpson, "Yeah, but what ya gonna do ?"

burakkucat

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 27671
  • Over the Rainbow Bridge
    • The ELRepo Project
Re: Does this sound like an HR fault ?
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2019, 04:59:02 PM »

How many times do you have to do this before they will accept that there is a fault ?

Unfortunately with some ISPs/CPs they are unable to answer the question: "How long is that piece of string?" It appears your service provider is one of them.  :-\

The only thing you can do is to go along with their requests and keep them fully up to date with the results obtained. Firm, consistent, pressure will need to be applied.
Logged
:cat:  100% Linux and, previously, Unix. Co-founder of the ELRepo Project.

Please consider making a donation to support the running of this site.

toulouse

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 572
  • I like cheesecake !!!
Re: Does this sound like an HR fault ?
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2019, 10:40:19 AM »

Update on my suspected HR fault.

I had a trainee engineer  turn up to look into the problem for me on Wednesday 6th February. He seemed to agree initially that the line was a little noisy, but was not able to actually track down the cause. He was later joined by his 'mentor' who had been in the job for over 22 years and carried out a further inspection of all the wiring from the Distribution Point for the building to my ground floor flat. During this inspection he was of the view that the original wiring was probably around 50 years old and included a couple of what he called 'blue beans' close to the DP. As they had decided to replace my NTE/5A with a new NTE/5C, I was asked if I would like them to rewire from the DP to my new master socket in an attempt to eliminate any potential problems relating to the ancient wiring, which I agreed to.

In total, they were here for around 3 hours, and the phone line now appears to be noise free during calls.

There have been a couple of changes in my DSLStats, but I was advised to leave things alone for a few days and see how things are then.

toulouse

Logged
Utility Warehouse (via TalkTalk)
FTTC 40/10
ZyXEL VMG8924-B10A
ECI (approx 750 metres)

People tell me that I ought to get out more. But in the words of the great Homer J Simpson, "Yeah, but what ya gonna do ?"

burakkucat

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 27671
  • Over the Rainbow Bridge
    • The ELRepo Project
Re: Does this sound like an HR fault ?
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2019, 05:19:16 PM »

The "blue beans" were an early type of crimp that subsequently were shown to have a significant design fault. The do not have the water repelling petroleum jelly filling and the metallic innards -- the sleeve with spikes -- was made out of brass. At the first hint of moisture, corrosion occurred at the brass - copper interface.

As I understand it, instructions were issued that they should be removed, whenever sighted.

It reads as if you have achieved a good result and, hopefully, the circuit will now prove to be error free.
Logged
:cat:  100% Linux and, previously, Unix. Co-founder of the ELRepo Project.

Please consider making a donation to support the running of this site.