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Author Topic: Snow  (Read 2106 times)

Weaver

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Snow
« on: January 30, 2019, 12:38:22 PM »

We have a couple of inches of snow lying now. There have been showers for the past few days.
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Ronski

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Re: Snow
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2019, 10:19:44 PM »

At least it's not as cold as Chicago.
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Snow
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2019, 08:40:49 AM »

Our snow has arrived, overnight, about 3 inches.

We don’t have a big grand house, but it does have a long driveway, about 200ft.   Bits of it are 20-25% gradient, and nobody but me to clear it.    Beyond that, another several hundred ft, still hilly, shared with just a couple of neighbours.  We all chip in, but I am youngest... 

Dilemma is... if I start digging now, by the time I have got the cars to the main road, spring may well have arrived. :D

Slightly annoying thing is I have a set of good winter tyres on spare wheels in the garage, which would easily cope with the conditions.   But in order to fit them, my insurance company makes me jump through so many hoops that I’ve just stopped bothering.    :'(
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j0hn

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Re: Snow
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2019, 09:04:56 AM »

Slightly annoying thing is I have a set of good winter tyres on spare wheels in the garage, which would easily cope with the conditions.   But in order to fit them, my insurance company makes me jump through so many hoops that I’ve just stopped bothering.    :'(

Change insurer?
The vast vast majority don't require you to notify them of Winter tyres.

https://www.abi.org.uk/~/media/Files/Documents/Publications/Public/Migrated/Motor/ABI%20guide%20to%20winter%20tyres%20The%20motor%20insurance%20commitment.pdf
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Snow
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2019, 09:19:54 AM »

Change insurer?
The vast vast majority don't require you to notify them of Winter tyres.

https://www.abi.org.uk/~/media/Files/Documents/Publications/Public/Migrated/Motor/ABI%20guide%20to%20winter%20tyres%20The%20motor%20insurance%20commitment.pdf

That document is well publicised, but somewhat misleading.  Mine is listed as “No need to notify”.   But it actually refers primarily to fitment of winter tyres.  Whereas optimum wheel dimensions are also different, for use in snow, thus my tyres are on alternative wheels.   Basically, you want a wheel/tyre that maintains the same circumference, with matching offset, but is narrower.   Insurers then treat the wheels as a “modification” and for underwriters, understandably perhaps, talk of modified wheels conjures up images of the “General Lee”. 

Arguably, my mistake was to mention it to them in the first place.  But I did mention it, and I can’t unmention it, and I can’t deny that I mentioned it should I switch insurers. :'(
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j0hn

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Re: Snow
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2019, 09:36:57 AM »

It's not misleading at all, it's very clear and specific.
It's an agreement by every insurance company that is a member of the ABI.

It was well publicised at the time and is still an ongoing commitment.

Quote
The  commitment  of  insurers: The  insurers  named  below  do  not  require  the  payment  of  any  additional  premium  if customers  decide  to  fit  winter  tyres  to their  cars,  provided  that  the  tyres  meet,  and  are fitted  in accordance  with,  the  relevant  vehicle  manufacturers’  specifications  and  are  in a roadworthy  condition  whilst  in use.   

If your tyres don't meet the above specifications then that's your error as a buyer. The fact they are on different wheels is largely irrelevant, provided they also meet the relevant vehicle manufacturers specifications.
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Snow
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2019, 09:56:06 AM »

I can categorically assure you that vast majority of Insurers want to be notified if you fit wheels that differ from those that left the factory on the specific car and model variant named on the policy.     That applies regardless of fitting winter tyres.   They may not increase the premium, but they do need to be notified.

Disbelieve that at your own peril.
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Ronski

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Re: Snow
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2019, 10:21:08 AM »

I agree with 7LM, fitting different wheels is classed as a modification and thus your insurance company should be informed. Simply fitting winter tyres on your existing wheels would not be.

I recently changed the wheels on my  car,  I notified the insurance company and once they knew they were genuine VW wheels they were quite happy.
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Snow
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2019, 10:43:33 AM »

I agree with 7LM, fitting different wheels is classed as a modification and thus your insurance company should be informed. Simply fitting winter tyres on your existing wheels would not be.

I recently changed the wheels on my  car,  I notified the insurance company and once they knew they were genuine VW wheels they were quite happy.

My winters are genuine Volvo wheels, listed as an accessory for my model variant, the recommended size for winter tyres.   But since most folks in the UK don’t understand winter tyres, these wheels are not actually available as a factory option in UK.  They had to be specially ordered, which muddies the waters.

Net result is they don’t raise the premium, but they do need to be notified in November when I fit them, and again in March when I revert back.   Each notification leads to issuing a replacement certificate, voiding the earlier one, and detailing or removing the declared modification.  Their T&C  states that they reserve the right to charge me £30 for each of these policy updates.   They have always waived that fee,  but it’s all just too much hassle.

Other problem with winter tyres of course is, whilst they are great fun on driveways like mine and let you run rings around neigbours in their 4x4s, you’ll still get stuck in the same queues of stuck or abandoned cars on the motorway.   And whilst you can still go shopping when the neighbours can’t, your car will still get hit in the car park, by somebody with no idea how to drive in snow. :'(

As an aside, I decided a few years ago to compromise by fitting Michelin Cross Climates (to the original factory wheels)  which many reviewers claim to be nearly as good as winter tyres.  I can only imagine these reviews are all sponsored as, for me at least, the Cross Clmates have proven pretty much as useless in snow as any other summer tyre.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2019, 10:51:38 AM by sevenlayermuddle »
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Snow
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2019, 01:16:40 PM »

Back to the snow...

I decided to make a start on the clearance, but soon reallised I wasn’t in the mood, so I made a snowman.  He turned out not bad, though better half complains that he seems to be looking straight at her, sat by her desk in the study.   I refused to say whether that was deliberate.

I’d have spent more time on the snowman except I suddenly felt a much stronger urge, to build an igloo.  It collapsed just as I was getting a roof to form, but that was my first ever igloo, I may have another go later.

Ah, the joys of retirement. :D
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Ronski

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Re: Snow
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2019, 01:37:28 PM »

Many years ago we built an igloo, it lasted quite a while IIRC.

I just had fitted four Michelin Cross Climates to my wife's Corsa, the old tyres were worn out and they were a very good price, no idea yet if they are any good.

My car is a 4x4, a VW Tiguan, until a few months ago I ran it with winter tyres on all year round, they were on it when I bought it five years ago, I recently replaced the wheels and tyres with a secondhand set off a newer Tiguan so only have normal tyres now. fortunately we've  not had enough snow to really test its performance i. My previous car was an AUDI Allroad and that was fantastic in the snow, even with ordinary tyres, it never got stuck, mind you I actually know how to drive in the snow unlike most, but even if I booted it in our yard here work it would scrabble for grip, then suddenly be off like  a rocket.
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Snow
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2019, 01:50:02 PM »

I just had fitted four Michelin Cross Climates to my wife's Corsa, the old tyres were worn out and they were a very good price, no idea yet if they are any good.


Sorry, hope I have not cast doubt on them.   I may have just been unlucky and tried them in the “wrong type of snow”, they do actually get consistently good and very convincing reviews.   

Fwiw, despite my moaning, I am actually on my second set!   Even though I am doubtful of them in snow, I just like them.  They are probably the quietest tyre I have tried on the Volvo, tread wear is ok, and perform very well in all conditions, just not quite as well in fresh snow as hardcore dedicated winter tyres (mine were Nokians).
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Snow
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2019, 02:25:24 PM »

Ps: @Ronski...

I just tried an experiment... could I get up my drive, without clearing away the snow, now about 4 inches?   Unfortunately, not a chance.  No matter what strategy, traction control enabled/disabled, 1st gear or 2nd, take a short run at it, each time same result...  within half a car’s length on the 20-25% gradient, I am slithering back down again.  Had to give up in the end as there’s a brick wall on one side, danger of slithering up against it, which would be embarrassing.

I did try the same experiment years ago on the Nokians, similar amount of snow.   I was not only able to get all the way up, I could stop halfway, hold it on the handbrake and restart again with no drama.   For me at least, I’m afraid the Cross Climates are just nowhere near as good in snow, the difference is night and day.   But repeat, overall I am satisfied, they are an excellent tyre the other 364 days of the year.
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Ronski

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Re: Snow
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2019, 05:45:16 PM »

I'll have to see how the wife get's on with them, main reason we bought them was because they were Michelin's at a very good price (£54 each) and being cross climate they may help her in the snow. I had to rescue her once, she got stuck on a local hill, I took the Allroad out to her and let her drive that back, I got in her Corsa and promptly just drive it up the hill and home, no drama  ;D

I did once have a drama in my old Granada 2.8i back in the 90's, for some reason I drove up a hill (my normal way home) but I got halfway up and no matter what I tried it was having none of it, I had to perform a very careful 3 point turn and then stop at the bottom at the junction then go the other way.
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Snow
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2019, 06:16:32 PM »

Old cars were a lot more snow-friendly, with narrower tyres.   My early Escorts had 155 section iirc, wheras my range-topping mk3 cortina 2000e only had 165.   The Volvo has 225 section, that’s a lot more snow to be displaced whenever the car wants to move.

Browsing for the Cross Climates today, I noticed a small print disclaimer on Michelin’s Canadian website...

https://www.michelin.ca/en/cross-climate-plus.html

Quote
* The MICHELIN® CrossClimateTM + tire is not designed for extreme winter road conditions like ice, slush and heavy snow.

I don’t recall any such disclaimers on their UK website, but fair to assume Canadian motorists are probably a bit more aware than UK, of what makes a real winter tyre.
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