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Author Topic: Problem with rtx high and capping  (Read 5026 times)

Alex Liddiard

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Problem with rtx high and capping
« on: December 24, 2018, 11:56:44 AM »

[Split from original topic - Roseway]

This is my first post here, hey everyone! :)

So earlier this month I got my line reset after it got banded. The line has settled down with an SNR or 3db and a sync speed of 68187kbps. However I'm facing this line speed cap because of rtx high (https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,22086.0.html). Below are my line stats from my modem, I was wondering if DLM would eventually swap it over to rtx low with stats like these?

Code: [Select]
xdslctl info --stats
xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 22722 Kbps, Downstream rate = 70212 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 68187 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        3.3             7.0
Attn(dB):        14.8            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        13.9            6.6

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           -6              20
B:              243             239
M:              1               1
T:              0               64
R:              10              0
S:              0.1139          0.3819
L:              17833           5028
D:              8               1
I:              254             120
N:              254             240
Q:              8               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                77              0
TxQueue:                11              0
G.INP Framing:          18              0
G.INP lookback:         11              0
RRC bits:               0               24
                        Bearer 1
MSGc:           154             -6
B:              0               0
M:              2               0
T:              2               0
R:              16              0
S:              6.4000          0.0000
L:              40              0
D:              3               0
I:              32              0
N:              32              0
Q:              0               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                0               0
TxQueue:                0               0
G.INP Framing:          0               0
G.INP lookback:         0               0
RRC bits:               0               0

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            0               70390685
OHFErr:         0               54
RS:             2153253568              209734134
RSCorr:         19351           0
RSUnCorr:       0               0
                        Bearer 1
OHF:            26774100                0
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             267740389               0
RSCorr:         63              0
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:         199             0
rtx_c:          190             0
rtx_uc:         0               0

                        G.INP Counters
LEFTRS:         0               0
minEFTR:        68172           0
errFreeBits:    447261294               0

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    558633149               0
Data Cells:     1157042822              0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

                        Bearer 1
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    0               0
Data Cells:     0               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             0               19
SES:            0               2
UAS:            23              23
AS:             430044

                        Bearer 0
INP:            59.00           0.00
INPRein:        1.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            6.13
OR:             0.01            33.91
AgR:            68257.02        20033.74

                        Bearer 1
INP:            4.50            0.00
INPRein:        4.50            0.00
delay:          3               0
PER:            16.06           0.01
OR:             79.68           0.01
AgR:            79.68   0.01

Bitswap:        4065/4065               3253/3253

Total time = 4 days 23 hours 27 min 47 sec
FEC:            19351           0
CRC:            0               54
ES:             0               19
SES:            0               2
UAS:            23              23
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           0
HostInitRetr:   0
FailedRetr:     0
Latest 15 minutes time = 12 min 47 sec
FEC:            40              0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           0
HostInitRetr:   0
FailedRetr:     0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            35              0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           N/A
HostInitRetr:   N/A
FailedRetr:     N/A
Latest 1 day time = 23 hours 27 min 47 sec
FEC:            3708            0
CRC:            0               2
ES:             0               2
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           0
HostInitRetr:   0
FailedRetr:     0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:            4242            0
CRC:            0               45
ES:             0               11
SES:            0               2
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           0
HostInitRetr:   0
FailedRetr:     0
Since Link time = 4 days 23 hours 27 min 23 sec
FEC:            19351           0
CRC:            0               54
ES:             0               19
SES:            0               2
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           0
HostInitRetr:   0
FailedRetr:     0
NTR: mipsCntAtNtr=0 ncoCntAtNtr=0

To make matters worse I've been further capped because the BRAS seems to think I'm at an older 64731kbps sync speed, I haven't had that speed since December 15th when DLM dropped my SNRM from 4db to 3db. I know this sync speed shown on my modem is correct and not actally 64731kbps because somehow the BT Wholesale line checker knows about it (shown as the "max observed downstream"). I'm really hoping that DLM does do something, and that is sorts this whole situation out.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2018, 02:45:48 PM by Alex Liddiard »
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ISP: Plusnet, Unlimited Fibre Extra
Modem: Technicolor DGA4132 in bridge mode
Router: ASUS RT-AC88U

j0hn

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  • Posts: 4099
Re: Problem with rtx high and capping
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2018, 01:12:05 PM »

Do you use a combined modem/router or 2 separate units?

The IP profile can be fixed by powering off your router for 5 mins and leaving it (modem can be left untouched).

If it's a combined unit just power it off for 5 minutes.

You can quickly check the IP profile here.
https://windows.mouselike.org/be/index.asp?DoAction=BrasChecker

If this doesn't work then it needs an extended downtime, about 15-30 minutes. 5 minutes is usually enough though.

It actually only needs the PPP to be left off for 5 minutes but most home routers don't offer this feature so turning the device off does the same thing.

Apart from the IP profile the line isn't capped in anyway.
If you want to change from Retx High to ReTx Low you will need to physically cap the line.
I'd recommend a cap around 60Mb.

Leave it capped till DLM resyncs the line lowering the Retx protection to Low.
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Alex Liddiard

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Re: Problem with rtx high and capping
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2018, 01:37:02 PM »

Hey John, thanks for the reply.

It's 2 seperate units, an Asus RT-AC88U and a Technicolor DGA4132. Strangely enough I disconnected the PPPoE session through the ASUS web interface for about 45 minutes last light. It had no effect on the IP profile. I'll try again today, maybe I should I try a complete power off of the router?

I'm a bit reluctant to touch the modem yet, are you sure its necessary to cap the speed? I was under the impression that it was controlled depending on the amount of errors.

Edit:
I'm going to try turn my router off overnight and see if that fixes the IP profile, I'll post back tomorrow.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2018, 04:09:47 PM by Alex Liddiard »
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ISP: Plusnet, Unlimited Fibre Extra
Modem: Technicolor DGA4132 in bridge mode
Router: ASUS RT-AC88U

j0hn

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Re: Problem with rtx high and capping
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2018, 04:04:31 PM »

It should be based on errors yes.

In all my time looking at stats I've seen 1, that's 1, Broadcom based modem with a 3dB SBRM target change to Retransmission Low without the user setting a cap.

Have a read of this thread
https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,22086.msg379469.html#msg379469

You will be waiting a long time on it changing by itself.
In my experience never.
If you apply the cap I suggested it will change within a few days.

As for the IP profile being stuck I've no idea. Dropping the PPP usually fixes it.
You could try powering off the router.

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Alex Liddiard

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  • Posts: 14
Re: Problem with rtx high and capping
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2018, 04:13:32 PM »

That was spooky, I edited my message exactly when you posted!

Thanks for the clarification John. So the plan is I'll turn off my router tonight and turn it back on in the morning. I'll wait another week and see if anything happens with regards to the rtx profile. If not I'll cap it to 60mbps and hope for the best.
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ISP: Plusnet, Unlimited Fibre Extra
Modem: Technicolor DGA4132 in bridge mode
Router: ASUS RT-AC88U

underzone

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  • Posts: 442
Re: Problem with rtx high and capping
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2018, 05:14:57 PM »

"So the plan is I'll turn off my router tonight and turn it back on in the morning." - then you need to cap the line, which will cause another re-sync (send the command via telnet or DSL stats). Then you need to leave it alone and wait for DLM to act.

As advised: adsl configure --maxDataRate 60000 20000 100000

Once ReTx High is removed, it never seems to re-appear which is nice  :)
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Alex Liddiard

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Re: Problem with rtx high and capping
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2018, 05:10:55 PM »

Turned on the router this morning, the IP profile hasn't budged still. Seems its gotten stuck really well!

As for the high rtx, comparing the error rates with those for the capped lines in the other thread seems to indicate the DLM should kick in. Unless maybe I need higher SNRM as thats the only thing I appear to be lacking with my current sync. I'm going to keep the current modem sync going for 11 days before trying a cap (currently sitting at 6 days 4 hours).
« Last Edit: December 25, 2018, 05:13:13 PM by Alex Liddiard »
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ISP: Plusnet, Unlimited Fibre Extra
Modem: Technicolor DGA4132 in bridge mode
Router: ASUS RT-AC88U

j0hn

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  • Posts: 4099
Re: Problem with rtx high and capping
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2018, 06:13:50 PM »

Quote
As for the high rtx, comparing the error rates with those for the capped lines in the other thread seems to indicate the DLM should kick in.

What error rates are you comparing?

We have no idea what figures DLM looks at when deciding if the line should go to Retx Low.
It's 100% NOT looking at ES, which is what DLM usually watches. It's also not LEFTERS, which to me would be the most relevant Retransmission counter.

For nearly 6 months I had 0 ES everyday and 1 LEFTERS in that time and DLM didn't budge. My modem was in sync for 142 days over this time also.

I capped my line and  8-9 days later it dropped to ReTx Low.
My FEC count was the only counters that decreased when I capped my line. Obviously the SNRM also increased.
The thread linked to above shows others had similar.

If it makes you feel better then wait another 5 days before trying a cap.
I'm confident another 5 months would still see you on Retx High though.

I would suggest contacting your ISP regarding the IP Profile being stuck.
What you have already tried is the only thing I'm aware of that an end user can try themselves.
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Alex Liddiard

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Re: Problem with rtx high and capping
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2018, 08:50:15 PM »

I'm looking at all the errors I can see (FEC, CRC, ES, SES, UAS, LOS, LOF, LOM, the G.INP stuff like the retransmit counters,LEFTRS). If my error numbers are not clearly lower I worked out the hourly/daily rate and compared. The stats I'm comparing to are whatever I could find in this thread: https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,22086.0.html, Reply #44 by Hitman, Reply #59 by NewtronStar, Reply #84 by pooclah, Reply #94 by JordanBlack68.

Main reason I'm waiting is because I figured it would help others know if the SNRM really matters to make the DLM kick in. :)
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ISP: Plusnet, Unlimited Fibre Extra
Modem: Technicolor DGA4132 in bridge mode
Router: ASUS RT-AC88U

j0hn

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Re: Problem with rtx high and capping
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2018, 12:00:50 AM »

All knowledge is appreciated  :)

Could you post your current stats again?
A few days more worth of the error stats would help.

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Alex Liddiard

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  • Posts: 14
Re: Problem with rtx high and capping
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2018, 11:21:39 AM »

Oh my it actually happened!! I can't believe it, I read your message just now and went to post the stats and...

Code: [Select]
xdslctl info --stats
xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    1
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 22317 Kbps, Downstream rate = 69347 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 68256 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        3.3             7.0
Attn(dB):        14.8            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        13.9            6.6

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           -6              20
B:              243             239
M:              1               1
T:              0               64
R:              10              0
S:              0.1138          0.3819
L:              17851           5028
D:              8               1
I:              254             120
N:              254             240
Q:              8               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                55              0
TxQueue:                11              0
G.INP Framing:          18              0
G.INP lookback:         11              0
RRC bits:               0               24
                        Bearer 1
MSGc:           154             -6
B:              0               0
M:              2               0
T:              2               0
R:              16              0
S:              6.4000          0.0000
L:              40              0
D:              3               0
I:              32              0
N:              32              0
Q:              0               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                0               0
TxQueue:                0               0
G.INP Framing:          0               0
G.INP lookback:         0               0
RRC bits:               0               0

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            0               3304648
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             706711240               211483294
RSCorr:         1076            0
RSUnCorr:       0               0
                        Bearer 1
OHF:            1257027         0
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             12569650                0
RSCorr:         2               0
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:         21              0
rtx_c:          21              0
rtx_uc:         0               0

                        G.INP Counters
LEFTRS:         0               0
minEFTR:        68234           0
errFreeBits:    624963412               0

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    2650297647              0
Data Cells:     10007412                0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

                        Bearer 1
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    0               0
Data Cells:     0               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             10              28
SES:            10              2
UAS:            63              53
AS:             20191

                        Bearer 0
INP:            49.00           0.00
INPRein:        0.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            6.13
OR:             0.01            33.91
AgR:            68325.92        20033.74

                        Bearer 1
INP:            4.50            0.00
INPRein:        4.50            0.00
delay:          3               0
PER:            16.06           0.01
OR:             79.68           0.01
AgR:            79.68   0.01

Bitswap:        43/43           175/175

Total time = 6 days 22 hours 55 min 50 sec
FEC:            26296           0
CRC:            0               63
ES:             10              28
SES:            10              2
UAS:            63              53
LOS:            1               0
LOF:            1               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           1
HostInitRetr:   0
FailedRetr:     0
Latest 15 minutes time = 10 min 50 sec
FEC:            47              0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           0
HostInitRetr:   0
FailedRetr:     0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            78              0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           N/A
HostInitRetr:   N/A
FailedRetr:     N/A
Latest 1 day time = 22 hours 55 min 50 sec
FEC:            3281            0
CRC:            0               5
ES:             10              5
SES:            10              0
UAS:            40              30
LOS:            1               0
LOF:            1               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           1
HostInitRetr:   0
FailedRetr:     0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:            3596            0
CRC:            0               4
ES:             0               4
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           0
HostInitRetr:   0
FailedRetr:     0
Since Link time = 5 hours 36 min 29 sec
FEC:            1076            0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           0
HostInitRetr:   0
FailedRetr:     0
NTR: mipsCntAtNtr=0 ncoCntAtNtr=0

:D :D :D
I'm going to reboot the router soon when I get the change and see if the IP profile adjusts.
So that proves it, its all about the errors! :)

Edit:
So I haven't done anything with the the router yet as its in use, but I've ran a BT wholesale test and the IP profile hasn't budged yet (still 59.56mbps). I have a feeling I'm going to have to go through a long conversation with my ISP again...
« Last Edit: December 26, 2018, 12:19:00 PM by Alex Liddiard »
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ISP: Plusnet, Unlimited Fibre Extra
Modem: Technicolor DGA4132 in bridge mode
Router: ASUS RT-AC88U

Alex Liddiard

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  • Posts: 14
Re: Problem with rtx high and capping
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2018, 01:36:14 PM »

Hmm the more I look at my stats the more I feel like my line is being held back (almost equivalently to a cap) because of having strangely low but stable SNR. Severe cross-talk? Maybe I should make another thread about this.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2018, 02:21:55 PM by Alex Liddiard »
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ISP: Plusnet, Unlimited Fibre Extra
Modem: Technicolor DGA4132 in bridge mode
Router: ASUS RT-AC88U

Alex Liddiard

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  • Posts: 14
Re: Problem with rtx high and capping
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2018, 02:10:06 PM »

Update on what has happened so far:

Yesterday I contacted my ISP, they have raised the IP profile problem with the Openreach complex faults team, I should get a response from them within 48 hours. They also ran some more tests on the line, I have attached the reports for these. They found no issues except that the download speeds are below the promised minimum of 60mbps. Today using the ASUS web interface I closed the PPPoE session and started a new one 2 minutes later. After that I ran a BT wholesale speed test again and the IP profile is now 62880Kbps, up from 59564Kbps. The modem is currently syncing at 68256kbps with 3db SNR and ReTx Low and has been since about 5am on 26th December, which means the ReTx problem is solved but the IP profile problem is not.

Some more info about the IP profile:

The last three IP profiles have been 54140kbps, 59564kbps and 62880Kbps. 54140kbps was what I got right after I had a DLM reset on the 7th December, it stayed like that up to the 16th, even after 3 DLM resyncs during that time. 59564kbps is what I got on the 16th after I carefully restarted my modem and router. It stayed like that after a modem/router restart on the 18th and one on the 19th, after restarting the PPPoE session, after leaving the router off overnight, and even after the DLM resync on the 26th December. Today the IP profile changed to 62880Kbps after restarting the PPPoE session.

So from this limited info I have it appears I am experiencing a combination of two bugs:

1. When a DLM resync occurs the PPPoE session is not restarting and applying a new IP profile. This can be seen from the fact the IP profile has never changed without restarting the PPPoE session manually.

2. The DLM system/BRAS is using outdated sync and line profile information. More specifically, it appears to be using information from whatever the line configutation was right before the latest DLM intervention. This is harder to see, whenever the IP profile has updated it has never been correct for the current sync speed and ReTx setting, it has been for a previous one:

.The change to 59564Kbps corresponds to a sync speed of 64743Kbps on ReTx High, at the time my line was: 68164Kbps, 3db, ReTx High (after DLM intervention) and before that was 64731Kbps, 4db, ReTx High. Also see that the fresh test results from my ISP show this old line profile.

.The change to 62880Kbps corresponds to a sync speed of 68347Kbps on ReTx High, at the time my line was: 68256Kbps, 3db, ReTx Low (after DLM intervention) and before that was 68187Kbps, 3db, ReTx High. I suspect that if another GEA test was performed it will now show this old line profile.

Of course this is just speculation from patterns that seem to be emerging, but certainly the automated systems aren't working properly and I hope Openreach complex faults team can see a problem and fix it.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2018, 02:28:42 PM by Alex Liddiard »
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ISP: Plusnet, Unlimited Fibre Extra
Modem: Technicolor DGA4132 in bridge mode
Router: ASUS RT-AC88U

j0hn

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Re: Problem with rtx high and capping
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2018, 03:50:08 PM »

Your the 1st IP profile issue I've seen in a couple years that killing the PPP for a while hasn't fixed.
DLM resets usually aren't an issue.
Years ago IP profile issues were commonplace but the system works much better now.

The IP profile for Retx High can be anywhere between 91-92.*% of the sync speed.
No IP profile can be used to exactly calculate the sync of a line running Retx High, and vice versa.

With Retx Low the IP Profile is always an exact percentage of the sync speed (96.69%).
This means you can work out the IP profile from sync and vice versa with Retx Low.

The above only applies to Broadcom chipsets.
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Talktalk FTTP 550/75 - Speedtest - BQM

ejs

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Re: Problem with rtx high and capping
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2018, 04:18:20 PM »

I don't suppose a different router has been tried to see if that sorts out the IP profile updating?

I think I've seen one or two cases of someone's IP profile never updating when they were using Asus routers.
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