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Author Topic: Can you estimate Gfast speed from FTTC speed? Have you upgraded from FTTC to Gfast?  (Read 2160 times)

ejs

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Are you sure profile 17a is "limited to 100Mb"?

The G.993.2 document specifies minimum mandatory requirements. It specifies a "minimum bidirectional net data rate capability" of 100Mb for profile 17a. That's not a maximum limit, it's a requirement for a minimum capability of 100Mb for the sum of upstream and downstream bandwidth.
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re0

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I was looking at this which shows data rates in the case of Vectored 17a (bandplan EU32).

Connections in Germany using VDSL 17a G.Vector appear to be able exceed 100 Mbps downstream, seemingly going up to 109,344 Kbps. Combined with the upstream being upto and in excess of 40 Mbps, you end up with ~150 Mbps bi-directional.

Perhaps the general limitation is chipsets/DSLAMs supporting upto 100/50 (DS/US) Mbps on profile 17a? I don't know.
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j0hn

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I was under the impression the maximum combined was 140Mb for some reason.
I wasn't aware Germany had 110/42. Very little online about EU-32 bandplan.


I can't for the life of me find any numbers for what bands they use and what tones.

That's still a very long way from
Quote
Vectored 17a would have almost doubled data rates over standard 17a

Most telcos who sell Vectored VDSL2 17a have 100Mb downstream.
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re0

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I wasn't aware Germany had 110/42.
Well, the thing is that it's not actually advertised as 110 Mbps. Both 1&1 and Telekom (Deutsche Telekom) advertise their speeds as up to 100/40 Mbps, but it appears that the DSLAM and modems when using 17a G.Vector seem to be able to acheive sync rate of up to 109344/41999 Kbps (DSLAM says 42000 is max. upstream rate, but I have not seen any modems at that exact figure). Perhaps the 100/40 Mbps refers to maximal throughput, but I somehow doubt it.

A guy who calls himself wunsel on the blogdoch blog did a "shootout" with various Fritz!Box VDSL modems which can be seen here. It shows both the 7412 and 7490 hitting about as a high as they can go.

That's still a very long way from
Vectored 17a would have almost doubled data rates over standard 17a
I totally agree that would be true, and this was an oversight of mine when I initially wrote that out.

Most telcos who sell Vectored VDSL2 17a have 100Mb downstream.
Perhaps for practicality it would make sense just to say 100 Mbps downstream since the amount of devices capable of syncing at such speeds may be limited.

Either way, I think this should have all been it's own topic.
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dee.jay

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Related to the topic, my lines are 600m in distance from the cabinet, and G.Fast is not available to me at all. I get around 70Mbit on each line.

G.Fast, whilst very nice for those who can get it - only those who have 80Mb can take advantage. Most users who have 80Mbit will likely argue that they won't need anything faster than that.

G.Fast would have made slightly more sense if BT actually pushed on and deployed it in the manner they originally intended it - that is to the distribution points. In my case that would have put me at the 330Mbit - I can see the DP from my house, it's 3 doors away.
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j0hn

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I don't think the intention was ever to put them on every DP.
It's a big assumption they would have used your DP.
It may have been 2 or 3 DP's along but still would be better than a cabinet deployment.

I'll be gutted if my PCP gets a G.Farce pod.
None on my exchange at all fortunately.
My PCP is the most populated on my exchange, serving over 850 properties.
It would almost certainly get a pod if they run it out here.
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re0

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It may have been 2 or 3 DP's along but still would be better than a cabinet deployment.
Wouldn't that have necessitated network rearrangements to the existing copper networking that Openreach probably would like to avoid?

It may be an obvious answer to you or someone, but it is a question of how signal injection is going to work for those on other DPs without rearrangement.
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j0hn

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You've lost me.
I don't see how that wouldn't work.

I don't think the intention was EVER to site a G.Farce DSLAM/Node on every DP.
They are installing 1 line card (24 ports) for an entire PCP.

Even a small 4 port pod for each DP would be excessive capacity for initial expected take up.

My street for example, a cul-de-sac.
There's about 6 Dps on my side of the street.
Let's number them 1-6 with 1 at the start of the street and 6 at the far end.
They could place a pod next to DP 1 that serves DP 1 to 3.

Remember it's fibre to the pod so any copper prior to the pod becomes E-Side and the xDSL signal is filtered from the E-Side.
The next pod is placed on DP 4 to serve DP's 4 to 6.
Again they use filters so the G.Fast signal only goes down the D-Side.
My street is only about 150-200m long though so even a single Node on DP1 could do the whole side of the street.

This becomes slightly more complicated in areas with multiple branches feeding of on multiple directions.

If they can filter the VDSL2 signal at the cabinet so it doesn't go down the E-Side then I'm at a loss to see how they can't do the same deeper in the network.

edit: I was thinking abbot this further and I wasn't so sure it would work. I'm confident it would though.

I wouldn't mind hearing other people's theories on this.

I'm also curious if anyone else had thoughts on how OpenReach were originally going to roll out G.Farce.

Did anyone else pick up that there would be a node on every DP or that they would be more selective than that?

My initial thoughts are there are over 4 million Distribution Points and that just wouldn't be feasible.
If there are 5 DP's within 100m of each other then why not strategically place 1 node to cover them all?
« Last Edit: December 18, 2018, 12:10:24 AM by j0hn »
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Chrysalis

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I agree with kitz, vectored 35b rollout would have been better, sadly tho I think openreach chose g.fast because the max possible speeds are higher, and they went with what has the best impact on marketing.

But vectored 35b to all would have helped many more lines.
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j0hn

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I agree with kitz, vectored 35b rollout would have been better

That was re0.
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re0

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35b (Super-Vectoring) up to 600m, vectored 17a >600m. 35b and 17a utilise same tone spacing and so the vectoring can be done between them both.

I can't remember whether it was mentioned before on the forum, but the MA5603T does support up to 384 SuperVectored ports. Though it's subject to line cards and controller units which I can't remember details for. :-X

Too bad for ECI deployments since ECI M41 is apparently a nightmare for vectoring. V41 would be better, though no sign of 35b support.
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Chrysalis

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then i agree with re0 j0hn
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dee.jay

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As far as I understood it, G.Fast was going to be installed at pretty much every DP. My DP serves at least 64 properties, so I don't think it to be some wild assumption they'd skip over mine.

Seeing as I am only 600m from the cabinet there probably aren't that many DP's between my house and it - our street is the first cul de sac street away from the cabinet.

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j0hn

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60 properties on a single DP is NOT the norm.

I'm on a brand new build and every DP has 10-12 properties.
Looking over my back fence at the existing telegraph poles there's 10-15 per DP.

edit to add again: 4 million DP's on the OpenReach network, divided by homes. The average is considerably smaller than 60.

I didn't even know there were DP's with 60 properties, unless it's a huge block of flats/apartments.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2018, 03:52:54 PM by j0hn »
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S.Stephenson

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I was going off the assumption that eventually they would install some more pods further into the network, anything other than that would be the work of a moron.

e.g POD at Cab then 400m or so later if it makes sense add a cab at a joint.
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