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Author Topic: Should I be getting more?  (Read 2087 times)

snadge

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Should I be getting more?
« on: December 27, 2018, 11:30:21 AM »

Hi

I upgraded my 40/10 Plusnet connection to 80/20 and have had the following stats since the connection went live,

5.   VDSL uptime:   9 days, 08:06:58
6.   Data Rate:   20000 / 73136
7.   Maximum Data Rate:   26372 / 87214
8.   Noise Margin:   9.4 / 5.9
9.   Line Attenuation:   13.9 / 13.9

.....and Im wondering, should I be getting more? theres quite a bit of available bandwidth

thanks
« Last Edit: December 27, 2018, 11:59:42 AM by snadge »
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michty_me

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Re: Should I be getting more?
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2018, 01:25:56 PM »

What kind of cabinet are you on?
It could be the Max data rate being reported is incorrect too?

Is it possible to get more detailed stats?
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Ronski

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Re: Should I be getting more?
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2018, 01:32:51 PM »

In your other thread prior to upgrading you had an attainable of 82/22.

Its possible your upgrade or the dreaded DLM has put you on an interleaved connection hence the inflated downstream attainable of 87.
IIRC in the other thread you said you were on an ECI cabinet, so you won't get G.INP or xdB, so best you can hope for is fast path and an increase back towards 80Mbps
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Formerly restrained by ECI and ali,  now surfing along at 390/36  ;D

kitz

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Re: Should I be getting more?
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2018, 01:35:50 PM »

There's insufficient stats there for us to be able to tell.   

The fact that your SNRM is circa 6dB in its current state implies not - unless you are on a Huawei cab which if your line is stable may lower your target SNRm down to as low as 3dB.

If you have only just upgraded, then by default your DLM profile will probably have Interleaving applied.   

If it is interleaved, then the max data rate will be over inflated.
What happens next depends on the type of cab you are on (which is why mitchty_me asked).   If it's an ECI, then hopefully it should go to Fast Mode which should give you a bit more speed.   If it's a Huawei cab, then g.INP will be applied which will give you a higher sync rate.

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ETA My post crossed with Ronski's
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snadge

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Re: Should I be getting more?
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2018, 02:14:45 PM »

yes since upgrading the max data rate has increased from 82MB to 87MB and the connection IS interleaved im guessing as my latency has risen from 14ms to 21ms, I cant access any more stats and is why im wanting a new router to do so

the cabinet is an ECI cabinet, I just tried my Lantiq Plusnet Hub One (BT Home Hub 5A) as it has a Lantiq chipset same as the Cabinet DSLAM and I got a lower sync, results below:

Pllusnet Hub One (lantiq)
5. DSL uptime:   0 days, 00:03:36
6. Data rate:   20000 / 71141
7. Maximum data rate:   29085 / 82273
8. Noise margin:   12.1 / 6.0
9. Line attenuation:   14.0 / 14.2

BT Home Hub 5B (broadcom)
5.   VDSL uptime:   9 days, 08:06:58
6.   Data Rate:   20000 / 73136
7.   Maximum Data Rate:   26372 / 87214
8.   Noise Margin:   9.4 / 5.9
9.   Line Attenuation:   13.9 / 13.9

I've already asked on PN forum if they can help but they said there is nothing they can do apart from request a stats reset which has been done as I upgraded.

oh well, I will just have to live with that, I suppose it gives me more buffer for crosstalk on customer uptake.
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Ronski

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Re: Should I be getting more?
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2018, 03:39:24 PM »

It won't give you as much buffer as you think, when interleaving is applied the attainable gets over estimated, so is probably closer to the 82Mbps attainable you had prior to upgrade.

Providing your not getting many errors interleaving will be removed and your speed will increase and latency will drop. Either way its still a very healthy speed.
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snadge

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Re: Should I be getting more?
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2018, 03:43:55 PM »

It won't give you as much buffer as you think, when interleaving is applied the attainable gets over estimated, so is probably closer to the 82Mbps attainable you had prior to upgrade.

Providing your not getting many errors interleaving will be removed and your speed will increase and latency will drop. Either way its still a very healthy speed.

I will keep an eye on it.

do we have (or have access to) a chart that gives you a rough idea of the speed vs line attenuation?  e.g. a Line Attenuation of Xdb usually yields Xmbps sync -> do we have anything like that on the website?
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j0hn

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Re: Should I be getting more?
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2018, 04:08:41 PM »

Interleaving/INP=3 drops the sync by (very roughly) 10%.
At the same time it makes the attainable go artificially high.

The attainable you saw prior to upgrading will be roughly what your line can achieve with fastpath.

Upgrading causes a DLM reset and ALL lines now go interleaved by default with a DLM reset.

On Huawei cabinets G.INP will be applied after 2 days.
On ECI cabinets if the errors are low enough the line will change to fastpath.

As you had 40Mb before, a much lower sync with plenty spare SNRM, the line will have changed to fastpath easily, or could even have been fastpath from before they made interleaving the default line profile.

With access to issue commands on compatible Broadcom or Lantiq modems you can cap your sync temporarily and force the line back to fastpath.
When the line changes to fastpath you can then remove the cap and sync at the full 80Mb.

Some lines just have too many ES on fastpath when at the lines full speed and it's always possible after doing all the above that the line goes straight back to interleaved after a few days.

Fortunately being with Plusnet you are on the Speed DLM Profile which allows double the ES as the Standard DLM Profile many other ISP's use.
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snadge

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Re: Should I be getting more?
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2018, 04:43:48 PM »

Interleaving/INP=3 drops the sync by (very roughly) 10%.
At the same time it makes the attainable go artificially high.

The attainable you saw prior to upgrading will be roughly what your line can achieve with fastpath.

Upgrading causes a DLM reset and ALL lines now go interleaved by default with a DLM reset.

On Huawei cabinets G.INP will be applied after 2 days.
On ECI cabinets if the errors are low enough the line will change to fastpath.

As you had 40Mb before, a much lower sync with plenty spare SNRM, the line will have changed to fastpath easily, or could even have been fastpath from before they made interleaving the default line profile.

With access to issue commands on compatible Broadcom or Lantiq modems you can cap your sync temporarily and force the line back to fastpath.
When the line changes to fastpath you can then remove the cap and sync at the full 80Mb.

Some lines just have too many ES on fastpath when at the lines full speed and it's always possible after doing all the above that the line goes straight back to interleaved after a few days.

Fortunately being with Plusnet you are on the Speed DLM Profile which allows double the ES as the Standard DLM Profile many other ISP's use.

thanks for the info,  when you mention "Issue Commands on a compatible modem" do you mean telnet commands?  Im in the market for a new router that can do this, Im thinking of getting the ZyXEL VMG8324-B10A or Netgear D7000, what commands have to be sent too the modem do reduce your line rate?
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michty_me

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Re: Should I be getting more?
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2018, 07:40:53 PM »

Im in the market for a new router that can do this, Im thinking of getting the ZyXEL VMG8324-B10A or Netgear D7000

If you are going for the D7000 for its Broadcom chipset, Be aware that the V1 (Broadcom based device is obsolete now apparently) and has been replaced with a V2 which if I remember correctly is using a Lantiq chip.
I currently have a V1 but I think it is failing like many others where it just totally locks up causing massive errors on the line.
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j0hn

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Re: Should I be getting more?
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2018, 03:21:57 AM »

I'd recommend the Zyxel.
Remember the 8324 and 8924 are identical but the 8924 also has 5GHz AC Wi-Fi.

I have an 8924 in my cupboard. It's the device I used on my ECI line to maintain fastpath. Brilliant modems imo.

Yes I meant telnet commands.
The commands for Broadcom modems are in this thread.
https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,16427.0.html

Broadcom modems cap the sync speed.
With Lantiq modems you can raise the SNRM instead (which lowers sync).
The bonus with Lantiq is you can also lower the SNRM.

Personally I prefer the Broadcom modems.
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S.Stephenson

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Re: Should I be getting more?
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2018, 02:30:59 AM »

On my ECI lines I run Vigor 2760s so I can force them to run at 3db using telnet.

My line is ultra stable though uptime 100 days and 3040ES.
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