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Author Topic: Wanting a New Router (advice please)  (Read 8379 times)

snadge

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Re: Wanting a New Router (advice please)
« Reply #30 on: December 27, 2018, 06:37:03 PM »

Ive just watched this youtube video which shows you how to combat it, I wasnt aware that its caused by your own router, I thought it was something that happened to traffic en-route (data spending too much time in buffers of switches).. the person in that video seems to fix it by reducing the throughput from his router down to 97% using QoS
« Last Edit: December 27, 2018, 06:50:59 PM by snadge »
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burakkucat

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Re: Wanting a New Router (advice please)
« Reply #31 on: December 27, 2018, 06:49:25 PM »

Ive just watched this youtube video . . .

 :hmm:  Hmm, I see no YouTube video when taking that link.  :no:
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snadge

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Re: Wanting a New Router (advice please)
« Reply #32 on: December 27, 2018, 06:50:43 PM »

sorry BK, thanks for pointing it out though :)

here it is:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C72c4B277Vg

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C72c4B277Vg[/youtube]
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GigabitEthernet

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Re: Wanting a New Router (advice please)
« Reply #33 on: December 30, 2018, 04:57:01 PM »

I am not familiar with a limitation of bandwidth alone stopping/reducing bufferbloat. I suspect QoS is required as well.
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snadge

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Re: Wanting a New Router (advice please)
« Reply #34 on: December 30, 2018, 06:41:08 PM »

I ordered a Zyxel VMG8924 B10A for £33 and that has QoS and should help, im having problems finding out what the CPU is running at, I may be wrong but I believe the 63168 chipset is Dual-Core but can run 'upto' 1Ghz and the BTHH5B Iam using at the moment is the 63168 at 800Mhz, I was after a router with a faster CPU but I forgot when I ordered the Zyxel lol...
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ejs

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Re: Wanting a New Router (advice please)
« Reply #35 on: December 30, 2018, 08:12:49 PM »

I thought the 63168 was usually 400MHz.

I think the newer devices boasting about their 1GHz CPU clock speeds are using a different CPU architecture anyway, so the CPU clock speeds are not directly comparable. The 63168, in common with lots of older routers, is MIPS architecture, while the newer 63138 is ARM architecture.

I would expect the bulk of the work to be offloaded from the main CPU onto dedicated parts of the chip anyway. I don't think there's much you could tell about a router's actual capabilities and performance based on its CPU clock speed.
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GigabitEthernet

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Re: Wanting a New Router (advice please)
« Reply #36 on: December 31, 2018, 11:56:59 AM »

A faster CPU isn't going to make much of any difference on such low speeds.
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snadge

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Re: Wanting a New Router (advice please)
« Reply #37 on: January 01, 2019, 12:34:52 PM »

A faster CPU isn't going to make much of any difference on such low speeds.
im on 73Mb sync?
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Weaver

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Re: Wanting a New Router (advice please)
« Reply #38 on: January 01, 2019, 01:47:53 PM »

Agreeing with Gigabitethernet.

I just want to point out that the processor speed in a modem has nothing to do with the dsl link throughout. Higher effective dsl link throughput speeds reported as ‘sync rates’ are determined by two things: Firstly, there is the possibility of putting more bits in each ‘symbol’ sent (more ‘detail’, if you like), that is a greater number of possible values that each transmitted symbol can have. Surprisingly, however, the symbol rate is always the same: 4312.5 symbols are sent per second. Secondly, higher speeds are achieved by having less additional baggage included in with the transmitted data in the form of redundant extra error correction information added. If the line is bad, then this extra information has to be included in order to allow errors to be corrected by mathematically back-calculating what the true values sent were. This extra info slows things down as it leaves less room for real user data.

A sending modem sends stuff at a certain rate which is fixed and is not determined by how fast a processor can go. A sender uses hardware that cranks the data out at a certain rate and the receiver has hardware that decodes the incoming signal at that same rate which is always fixed, and the hardware is designed to pick up incoming stuff at that fixed rate. It’s no more difficult for a receiver or sender to handle a supposedly ‘fast’ line, because the actual symbol rate is always the same at 4312.5 symbols per second.

If you did base n arithmetic at school, think of base 2, or base 3, base 8, base 10, base 16, or base 60 etc. The higher the base the more information is packed into each digit or ‘symbol’. This is the first part of the thing that governs effective speed as mentioned earlier.

If your line is hissy, or it does not carry high frequencies well, then the number of bits put into each symbol (number of possible values, the ‘base’) will have to be reduced so that a received symbols can be recognised reliably. There may be various kinds of disturbances on the link, aside from the signal just not propagating to the far end or not being audible against the noise background. Examples are burst noise, interference and crosstalk. To help deal with these problems then added error correction info will be needed and this wasteful extra info will reduce the real user data rate.

Apologies if you knew all of that already.

Aside from the modem side of things, routers and firewalls may have trouble processing large numbers of packets per second though, because they have to perform checks on each packet, or make changes to packets, if they are acting as firewalls, or when they are performing basic routing functions involving working out which link a packet should be redirected to. A router or firewall may be asked to do more or less work per packet depending on how it is configured. If the transmitted packets are very short, this could mean a lot of packets per second and then this could mean that a router might need a better cpu to keep up. This is all about how many packets per second are sent down the link and what the router is being asked to do though, nothing to do with faster or slower links at the modem or dsl level.
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snadge

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Re: Wanting a New Router (advice please)
« Reply #39 on: January 01, 2019, 02:09:08 PM »

Thanks for all that info Weaver, I knew some of it, like the basics of interleaving, INP and IP Packet Transmission... nice to have the under-workings explained though as I like to learn as much as possible, so thanks...

the reason I wanted a faster CPU was just in case my CPU was bottle-necking, it won't hurt to have a faster CPU, doesn't matter so much now as Ive purchased a Zyxell VMG8924-B10A and its great so far, I will leave a review after a few weeks, its syncs about 2% slower than the BTHH5B on the same chipset , but it's worth it for the slew of things I gain.
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snadge

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Re: Wanting a New Router (advice please)
« Reply #40 on: January 01, 2019, 03:43:16 PM »

...just to add to my previous reply, on idle my VMG8924 cpu usage is 12% but jumps up to 65% every 5 seconds or so
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Weaver

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Re: Wanting a New Router (advice please)
« Reply #41 on: January 01, 2019, 11:25:10 PM »

The thing about faster or slower sync rates is partly down to the SNRM the modems end up with. Some modems are just plain aggressive and they soon end up at a lower SNRM and so they go faster because they are taking more risks. My DLink DSL 320B-Z1 devices are a perfect example, they always seem to end up at around 1.5 dB SNRM or sometimes even lower quite soon even with a target SNRM that is supposed to be 3dB. That’s the reason they get the speeds that they do. If I were to tweak my ZyXEL VMG 1312-B10A so that it’s SNRM was down to that same level then it would be running at a way way faster sync rate.

So if you have a 2% sync rate difference then that is not a lot and there are a lot of things that have to be considered when comparing devices. With a difference that small, time of day when the device syncs is going to be important. I can get large differences in speed simply by carefully picking the time of day when I train up. As an extreme example, I get a 4.5 dB difference in upstream SNRM with one of my lines between one half of the day and the other half, with a sharp jump from high state to low state.
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GigabitEthernet

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Re: Wanting a New Router (advice please)
« Reply #42 on: January 02, 2019, 11:29:31 AM »

OpenWRT has done a bit of work with throughput and CPU. I believe mostly any router will be fine up until about 300Mbps when you might see some difference. It is only at 1Gb and faster you really see a difference.
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GigabitEthernet

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Re: Wanting a New Router (advice please)
« Reply #43 on: January 02, 2019, 11:30:22 AM »

im on 73Mb sync?

That is a low speed relatively.
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