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Author Topic: Wanting a New Router (advice please)  (Read 8380 times)

machare

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Re: Wanting a New Router (advice please)
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2018, 11:12:26 AM »

Is there something specific that the HH 5B doesnt do that you are looking for? It ticks all your boxes and as you are capped at less than half of attainable in both directions there is nothing to be gained from a different modem.

I am told that the Plusnet Hub One, rebadged BT HH 5 can't normally be configured to use a 10.x.x.x home network.  Is there a fix for this problem?
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snadge

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Re: Wanting a New Router (advice please)
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2018, 12:52:39 PM »

I am told that the Plusnet Hub One, rebadged BT HH 5 can't normally be configured to use a 10.x.x.x home network.  Is there a fix for this problem?

I have since upgraded to 80MB and the HH5B has the TELNET locked out, it does not have G.INP or Beam Forming, also I want a faster chipset, I just want a new router as ive used this for years
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j0hn

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Re: Wanting a New Router (advice please)
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2018, 02:41:15 PM »

The HH5B supports G.INP in both directions perfectly fine.

The HH5A supports G.INP on the downstream. A firmware update should be able to make it work on the upstream also if it doesn't already.
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snadge

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Re: Wanting a New Router (advice please)
« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2018, 03:38:48 PM »

The HH5B supports G.INP in both directions perfectly fine.

The HH5A supports G.INP on the downstream. A firmware update should be able to make it work on the upstream also if it doesn't already.

does it? didnt know that...

anyway it doesnt support beamforming and telnet is locked out

also my cabinet is ECI/Lantiq - do these chipsets use G.INP?
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snadge

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Re: Wanting a New Router (advice please)
« Reply #19 on: December 24, 2018, 04:22:13 PM »

I may be wrong, but my web page load times on my PC are nowhere near as snappy as my dads page load times on his connection on his PC, only big differences are he uses Windows 7 and I use Windows 10 & he is on ADSL and im on VDSL - we both have similar PC setups, he is on a 17Mb ADSL Talk Talk connection with 21ms latency and Iam on a 67Mbps VDSL Plusnet connection with 21ms latency

Im just wondering if the CPU/Chipset is struggling?

I will have to install Windows 7 on a partition to find out if its windows 10 thats the cause, but every time I go to my dads Im amazed at the speed of which his web pages load

EDIT: I also get a poor grade on ThinkBroadband's speedtest - it says its a grade B for latency while downloading and grade D for latency while uploading ?? (bufferbloat it mentions)
« Last Edit: December 24, 2018, 04:26:23 PM by snadge »
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ejs

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Re: Wanting a New Router (advice please)
« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2018, 06:07:50 PM »

I doubt it's a router CPU issue, if it were, then everyone would be suffering the same issue.
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re0

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Re: Wanting a New Router (advice please)
« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2018, 06:23:01 PM »

I may be wrong, but my web page load times on my PC are nowhere near as snappy as my dads page load times on his connection on his PC, only big differences are he uses Windows 7 and I use Windows 10 & he is on ADSL and im on VDSL - we both have similar PC setups, he is on a 17Mb ADSL Talk Talk connection with 21ms latency and Iam on a 67Mbps VDSL Plusnet connection with 21ms latency
It may be down to DNS performance. I do not know how well Plusnet's DNS servers perform, nor do I know how good the HH5B is at providing DNS name resolution services (since, in most cases, the gateway is a DNS server which does its own lookups to other DNS servers). You could try some benchmarking (add the Plusnet DNS servers in the list for comparison) or even just go straight ahead configure the computer to use Plusnet's, Google's or another DNS provider's servers directly.

I also get a poor grade on ThinkBroadband's speedtest - it says its a grade B for latency while downloading and grade D for latency while uploading ?? (bufferbloat it mentions)
Bufferbloat is quite common on consumer connections, regardless of speed. Quality of Service (QoS) would certainly be effective for use on the upstream by rate limiting to approx. 95% for all data. Unfortunately, for the downstream, there is not a whole lot you can do unless you are able to rate limit your downstream from the ISP's side (which cannot be done on Plusnet) to reduce bufferbloat (since data is going to be sent down the line at the maximum rate). I know the HH5B doesn't have QoS, so your only choice is to limit speeds on individual devices until you replace the router if you are noticing lag when downloading/uploading.
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ejs

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Re: Wanting a New Router (advice please)
« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2018, 06:44:07 PM »

Bufferbloat is quite common on consumer connections, regardless of speed. Quality of Service (QoS) would certainly be effective for use on the upstream by rate limiting to approx. 95% for all data. Unfortunately, for the downstream, there is not a whole lot you can do unless you are able to rate limit your downstream from the ISP's side (which cannot be done on Plusnet) to reduce bufferbloat (since data is going to be sent down the line at the maximum rate). I know the HH5B doesn't have QoS, so your only choice is to limit speeds on individual devices until you replace the router if you are noticing lag when downloading/uploading.

This is almost complete nonsense. You're not going to solve bufferbloat just by setting a lower upstream speed limit on your router. All that would happen is that data would leave the buffer at the lower rate. That's not going to stop the buffer filling up nor being too large!
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GigabitEthernet

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Re: Wanting a New Router (advice please)
« Reply #23 on: December 26, 2018, 05:44:58 PM »

This is almost complete nonsense. You're not going to solve bufferbloat just by setting a lower upstream speed limit on your router. All that would happen is that data would leave the buffer at the lower rate. That's not going to stop the buffer filling up nor being too large!

With SQM on something like OpenWRT, you can reduce bufferbloat to be almost negligible, if you are willing to reduce your down and up speeds. By doing this you control the buffer in your router and the algorithm is able to manage the flow more effectively to reduce it (something like cake).
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ejs

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Re: Wanting a New Router (advice please)
« Reply #24 on: December 26, 2018, 06:22:19 PM »

Sure, but I think that's mainly about the fancy scheduling algorithm rather than the rate limit.

It has occurred to me that the queue size imposed by a rate limiter could be smaller that whatever size queue you end up without it. So there.
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underzone

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Re: Wanting a New Router (advice please)
« Reply #25 on: December 26, 2018, 07:33:12 PM »

Correct, you are rate limiting the codel and specifying max throughput so that it always has room/overhead to operate efficiently.

All codels will add 'some' latency though as all data throughput is analyzed & then prioritized...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CoDel
« Last Edit: December 26, 2018, 07:36:12 PM by underzone »
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ejs

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Re: Wanting a New Router (advice please)
« Reply #26 on: December 26, 2018, 08:48:34 PM »

I was thinking more about the just slapping a rate limit on a router that doesn't have any fancy scheduler.
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GigabitEthernet

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Re: Wanting a New Router (advice please)
« Reply #27 on: December 26, 2018, 09:10:56 PM »

I was thinking more about the just slapping a rate limit on a router that doesn't have any fancy scheduler.

Ah I see, yes that would make no difference from my understanding. I think we were talking at cross purposes :)
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snadge

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Re: Wanting a New Router (advice please)
« Reply #28 on: December 27, 2018, 03:45:54 PM »

...lost me a bit in all that lol....

I did read that QoS could help with 'Bufferbloat', however, I re-tested under ThinkBB's 'NON-SSL' tester and in that one I got:

GRADE A (latency while downloading)
GRADE B (latency while uploading)

which is an improvement over the SSL version which yielded B (download latency) and D (upload latency)
Are there any documents or videos that explain what BUFFERBLOAT is and how it can be avoided?

So far Im looking at the Netgear

thanks
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GigabitEthernet

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Re: Wanting a New Router (advice please)
« Reply #29 on: December 27, 2018, 05:31:04 PM »

From my current awareness, the only decent way to combat bufferbloat is via the SQM packages as part of OpenWRT. I haven't seen an OEM get anything like the results you get using cake.
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