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Author Topic: Openreach Expand Large Scale Trial of SRA on FTTC Broadband Lines  (Read 4000 times)

Bowdon

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https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2018/11/openreach-expand-large-scale-trial-of-sra-on-fttc-broadband-lines.html

Quote
Openreach (BT) has today announced that they will conduct a “large scale” UK trial of Seamless Rate Adaption (SRA) technology on Fibre-to-the-Cabinet (FTTC / VDSL2) based superfast broadband ISP lines (40-80Mbps), which could improve service stability by varying the speed more effectively.

The technical way of explaining SRA is to say that it can be used to “reconfigure the total data rate by modifying the framing parameters and the bits and fine gains parameters.” If the noise condition (interference) improves then SRA can be used to gradually increase the data rate again, potentially taking it all the way back up to what you had before a nasty bit of sudden noise impacted the line.

SRA is technically nothing new to Openreach’s hybrid fibre network and it’s a standard part of the latest G.fast standard. Prior to that the operator has also previously tested it alongside the problematic VDSL2 Vectoring technology (2014 to 2015) and they recently tried to incorporate it as part of their Long Reach VDSL tests, which were shelved.

Earlier this year the operator decided that it might be better to try implementing SRA on its own and so they setup a small Proof of Concept (PoC) trial with 200 lines via Huawei based street cabinets. The service was applied gradually (line-by-line) and Dynamic Line Management (DLM) was also disabled. This ran for several months and after that Openreach began reviewing its impact, which brings us back to today.

Quote
    Openreach Statement

    This briefing is to inform all CPs that following the successful proof of concept earlier this year we will be trialling Seamless Rate Adaption (SRA) on a larger volume of lines

    We’ve published a briefing for CPs relating to SRA, which will vary the speed of a line as noise margin changes reducing the propensity to retrain, whereas today on NGA1, if the noise margin drops beyond a certain threshold, the line will retrain. Openreach will be running a large-scale trial to prove the benefits of this change.
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dee.jay

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Re: Openreach Expand Large Scale Trial of SRA on FTTC Broadband Lines
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2018, 02:56:11 PM »

Disable DLM? Very interesting.
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ktz392837

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Re: Openreach Expand Large Scale Trial of SRA on FTTC Broadband Lines
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2018, 03:20:40 PM »

Is this another misleading headline applying to only two thirds of the network (ie Huawei only) or does something actually work on the ECI cabs?
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daveesh1

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Re: Openreach Expand Large Scale Trial of SRA on FTTC Broadband Lines
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2018, 04:44:59 PM »

Nothing works on ECI cabs
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CarlT

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Re: Openreach Expand Large Scale Trial of SRA on FTTC Broadband Lines
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2018, 04:54:12 PM »

I don't see how the headline is misleading. Nothing in there about deploying SRA to every cabinet.
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Chrysalis

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Re: Openreach Expand Large Scale Trial of SRA on FTTC Broadband Lines
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2018, 05:10:13 PM »

If SRA was ran instead of DLM, I can see people getting excited by it, but of course it will reduce line speeds during periods of noise.

If it works out tho dont be surprised if its another hauwei only rollout.

The ECI situation is annoying, but I will say what I always say, its not as annoying as if there was no VDSL at all, aka been stuck on ADSL.  The ECI cabinet's were the difference with some area's been viable for a VDSL rollout or not.
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ejs

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Re: Openreach Expand Large Scale Trial of SRA on FTTC Broadband Lines
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2018, 06:46:11 PM »

I didn't know VDSL2 Vectoring was "problematic".
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ktz392837

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Re: Openreach Expand Large Scale Trial of SRA on FTTC Broadband Lines
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2018, 10:22:17 PM »

I don't see how the headline is misleading. Nothing in there about deploying SRA to every cabinet.
I guess it depends on what your view of large scale is - to me it is not excluding 30% of the ”country”.   

It makes it sound like OR are doing everyone a favour but in actuality 30% will NEVER get the benefit as it is impossible due to the cabinet used.
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ktz392837

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Re: Openreach Expand Large Scale Trial of SRA on FTTC Broadband Lines
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2018, 10:42:26 PM »



The ECI situation is annoying, but I will say what I always say, its not as annoying as if there was no VDSL at all, aka been stuck on ADSL.  The ECI cabinet's were the difference with some area's been viable for a VDSL rollout or not.
. Nope I disagree - nothing to do with costs - BDUK used Huawei cabinets, they were all working in my area before my ECI cabinet I wish BDUK did my cabinet rather than BT - I would still have FTTC and guessing a 30% better connection due to Ginp and 3db.

If ECI are cheaper why aren't BT using them now? Even better why were BDUK not using them if the public was funding them!

Not had a moan about the ECI cabinets recently - I'll shut up now


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CarlT

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Re: Openreach Expand Large Scale Trial of SRA on FTTC Broadband Lines
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2018, 12:32:56 AM »

I guess it depends on what your view of large scale is - to me it is not excluding 30% of the ”country”.

I'm afraid deploying to about 65% of the country, or if you prefer about 18 million premises, strikes me as large scale.

Virgin Media's network coverage of 52-55% of the country must be tiny for you.
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adslmax

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Re: Openreach Expand Large Scale Trial of SRA on FTTC Broadband Lines
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2018, 02:08:01 AM »

Disable DLM? Very interesting.

But it running trial only. Once it become rolled out then I am sure Openreach will turn back on DLM.
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Chrysalis

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Re: Openreach Expand Large Scale Trial of SRA on FTTC Broadband Lines
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2018, 07:01:34 AM »

. Nope I disagree - nothing to do with costs - BDUK used Huawei cabinets, they were all working in my area before my ECI cabinet I wish BDUK did my cabinet rather than BT - I would still have FTTC and guessing a 30% better connection due to Ginp and 3db.

If ECI are cheaper why aren't BT using them now? Even better why were BDUK not using them if the public was funding them!

Not had a moan about the ECI cabinets recently - I'll shut up now




Openreach were paid handsomely for bduk, and alot of bduk areas were done after they decided to switch back to hauwei.  Plus bduk had some requirements which are not applicable on the commercial rollout.

If you think adsl beats eci vdsl then I dont know what to say.

Its not realistic to think all eci cabinets would just be replaced with hauwei whilst they still work.
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kitz

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Re: Openreach Expand Large Scale Trial of SRA on FTTC Broadband Lines
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2018, 10:24:13 AM »

I didn't know VDSL2 Vectoring was "problematic".

Me neither.
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kitz

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Re: Openreach Expand Large Scale Trial of SRA on FTTC Broadband Lines
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2018, 10:25:50 AM »

Unbelievably at one point ECI's were considered the better option.  The cabs had a smaller footprint and could serve almost as many users as the much larger Huawei's.

Few people seem to realise that at the time Openreach were in the planning and ordering stage for the cabs...  there weren't any MSANs that could do system based vectoring.  At that time any vectoring was done at line card level (which the M41s can supposedly do btw). 

Although the theory of system based vectoring had been around for a while, no manufacturer had produced any units for sale to the Telcos.  The ECI V41's were the first MSANs to become available in the world able to perform system based vectoring... and unfortunately this probably overlapped with the period in which Openreach was already underway with the rollout of FTTC.

Bad timing and since when have BT/Openreach ever been the first to roll out new technology en masse?
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kitz

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Re: Openreach Expand Large Scale Trial of SRA on FTTC Broadband Lines
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2018, 10:45:00 AM »

If ECI are cheaper why aren't BT using them now? Even better why were BDUK not using them if the public was funding them!

Benefit of hindsight?     BDUK was rolled out several years after the main FTTC rollout.   I may be wrong but afaik its only the BDUK cabs that perform vectoring.
 
Since original rollout Huawei has developed a system based vectoring module that could be slotted into the larger Huwaei cabs.   
What was one of ECI cabs major selling points (small footprint) became a major disadvantage because there was no room on the M41's back plane to insert a separate module for vectoring.

As to G.INP I've still no idea what the problem is because Openreach aren't publicly saying but all the rumours seem to say its something to do with modem incompatibility.

Being on an ECI  cab myself I'm not too chuffed about no G.INP (which worked fine here during the brief period it was enabled).   My line would happily work at 3dB, but that ain't happening.   No prospect of vectoring which could give me back the >40Mbps overheads I've lost due to cross-talk...  and now the unlikelihood of SRA...  and on a line just to long to ever be able to benefit from g.fast.   There's no VM here.

Yeah it's a bummer, but at the end of the day I try console myself with the fact that FTTC has been here now for ~6yrs and once upon a time I was able to get the full 80/20 with a faster connection than most at a time when the vast majority of people were still on adsl.
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