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Author Topic: The generational gap  (Read 7054 times)

tubaman

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Re: The generational gap
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2023, 01:05:42 PM »

Seen at Bletchley computer museum. https://ibb.co/1JvqLKW

That's the one!  :)
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digbey

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Re: The generational gap
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2023, 02:00:13 PM »

While I was programming, I first used an ASR33 with an acoustic coupler, then got upgraded to a leased line with a GPO Modem 2B and ICL Termiprinter. The modem worked well until the line got struck by lightning.
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burakkucat

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Re: The generational gap
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2023, 04:26:22 PM »

Seen at Bletchley computer museum. https://ibb.co/1JvqLKW

That's exactly the device of which I was thinking in my Reply #9, above.
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XGS_Is_On

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Re: The generational gap
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2023, 12:24:50 AM »

The generation before yours couldn't imagine the Internet or its predecessors unless in academia or military.

People take the current technology for granted and find the cutting edge stuff interesting. It was always so  :)
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: The generational gap
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2023, 04:15:33 AM »

I do feel sad though that people can't appreciate what we have now because they didn't see the technology develop, but that's just the way things are.  It seems only a minority have any interest or ability to imagine what it was like before their own childhood.

Its the same problems why people aren't up in arms at the idea they wont own anything, everything is on subscription and were living in a throwaway society where nothing can be repaired properly.   Until it impacts their lifestyle, it never really occurs to them what they are losing.

Basically, most people will take for granted how things have "always been" in their lifetime to just be how it is, rather than spend the time to actually think about how things could be better.  There's also a lot of apathy in those who do see where things have gone wrong, too much "there's nothing I can do about it" and people falling for infighting rather than realising if everyone works together we outnumber the people making the rules and CAN force changes.
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XGS_Is_On

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Re: The generational gap
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2023, 06:49:35 PM »

Everything is as a service. Few people can be bothered with buying multi terabyte spinning rust drives and hoarding content they can easily stream.

Copyright law is an issue and I suspect IP law will be further tightened going forward.
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: The generational gap
« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2023, 04:58:14 PM »

Problem is they won't be able to easily stream it tomorrow.
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tonygibbs16

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Re: The generational gap
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2023, 05:57:48 PM »

"we used to live in cardboard box in the middle of road. They don't know their born today." Monty Python.  :lol:

I wonder if it depends on who and which generation... my thirty-ish son likes technology and history and so he likes looking into how things were in the past and how they are now.

Technology has made huge leaps. My first modem was Prism V23 1200/75 bps device that I used for accessing Prestel in about 1984. I also had a V21 300 bps acoustic coupler. At work for BT I saw 300 bps modems in grey boxes that we were providing to customers.

1995 I had a 9600 bps modem PC card for my laptop.

I had a US Robotics modem 56kbps in the early 2000s.

I could do e-mail on that, but the WWW would not have worked on it.

ADSL made watching and streaming content possible, but not possible to upload documents when working from home on 0.5Mbps uplink speed.

VDSL made a big difference to me trying to work from home on an 80/20 Mbps package.

Cheers,
    Tony
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Weaver

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Re: The generational gap
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2023, 09:01:08 PM »

In 2003, I was happily accessing the WWW with my USR 56k dial-up modem, and I did also benefit greatly from the huge compression on LZW-compression-friendly data that is. That was, in my case, due to the ISP Demon offering MPPC compression

From the Wikipedia article on MPPC compression:
Quote

The end result is that where V.44 may achieve a maximum of 4:1 compression (230 kbit/s) but is usually limited to 115.2 kbit/s, MPPC is capable of a maximum of 8:1 compression (460 kbit/s). MPPC also, given the far greater computing power at its disposal, is more effective on data than V.44 and achieves higher compression ratios when 8:1 isn't achievable.


Whilst being aware of the huge difficulties nowadays, those old numbers are very attractive and I’m inclined to put some thinking into compression for the 21C. Once again a solution needs to have compressor/decompressor modules in the machines at the endpoints of conversations, but the placement within the protocol stacks needs to be higher for the most part. As high as possible is always the solution that can, all things being equal, give the best compression given the application’s understanding of the conversation and context / state. This of course means the smallest range of applications that benefit. Fine examples being the http-compression such as gzip that already exists for http payload and http2 and http3’s own header compression, while in a different area, VJ-compression is a superb example of compression that is very effective because it is tuned to do just one thing, and do it very well. We do also need standards for the fallback case where say http cannot be used and so there we might benefit from having a standard for in-http compression. The utility of such a thing is probably decreasing since https / TLS probably perhaps ruin any chances of compression at a lower level working. Is that true? For this reason among others, QUIC ought to get a bolt-in module for payload compression as standard most definitely. And the small number of non-QUIC UDP apps should have a standard compressor module available to them
« Last Edit: May 14, 2023, 05:22:00 AM by Weaver »
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XGS_Is_On

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Re: The generational gap
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2023, 07:33:41 PM »

This is part of the day job, I've assisted ISPs that've done this and even with both block compression and block caching the ratio didn't get above 1.3x. That across encrypted and non-encrypted.

On business traffic with just compression, even holding packets for a while to have more data to build a bigger dictionary, you're looking at 1.4-1.5x. That on non-encrypted stuff only. Improved substantially with caching.
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