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Author Topic: Capabilities of hybrid fibre networks  (Read 2388 times)

CarlT

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Capabilities of hybrid fibre networks
« on: October 02, 2018, 01:07:05 AM »

This comes from a post I wrote on the Virgin Media community forums.

https://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Speed/Higher-upload-speeds/td-p/3839697

While FTTP is the best option as you can see from those links there's a lot of life left in hybrid networks, even if Virgin Media are a long way from exploiting it: their usual routine being to do the bare minimum to offer the fastest 'widely available' downloads.

From the 500/50 services available through a number of VM's siblings in Liberty Global to the 1.2Gb download speed provided by Comhem in Sweden to the bleeding edge 1Gb down, 500Mb up, faster than anything Openreach offer over FTTP, being delivered by TDC Denmark there's life in that copper coated steel yet.

https://www.comhem.se/bredband/bredband-1200
https://tdc.dk/produkter/internet

TL;DR don't write off hybrid networks just because neither Openreach with their FTTC version of G.fast or Virgin Media with their shallow fibre, low upload, lowest common denominator HFC don't make the most of them.

VM could certainly compete against FTTP if they got off their laurel cushioned backsides and pushed on, Openreach could deliver some very nice speeds with fibre deep G.fast where circumstances prevent FTTP.
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dee.jay

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Re: Capabilities of hybrid fibre networks
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2018, 08:13:01 AM »

My only disappointment with G.fast is that BT have now gone half cock with it. There was talk of FTTdp-type implementations where they would be installing the pods not just as the PCP's, but at DP's further down the line. I'm 600m from my PCP, but <30-40M from my DP. I'd have snapped their hands off for G.fast - I'd surely be looking at a 300Mb connection.

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Ronski

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Re: Capabilities of hybrid fibre networks
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2018, 10:13:34 AM »

Virgins upload speeds are certainly very poor in comparison to their download speeds, such a shame that Virgin treats their customers like this whilst other Liberty Global customers have much better upload speeds.

How do residential uploads in other countries fair?
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CarlT

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Re: Capabilities of hybrid fibre networks
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2018, 10:39:57 AM »

The Comhem link I gave is a residential product, Ronski.

Here's the Danish residential product set - https://yousee.dk/bredbaand/overblik.aspx

The Dutch get 400/40: https://www.ziggo.nl/pakketten#internet-online-tv#zonder-bellen
The Irish get 360/36: https://www.virginmedia.ie/broadband/buy-a-broadband-package/360-mb-mobile-world/
The Polish get 500/30: https://www.upc.pl/internet/promocje/oferta-specjalna/500-9mc/

You may notice the theme that in other territories the business customers get higher tiers than the residential ones. In the UK Business gets nothing residential doesn't, and the business as a whole is reluctant to release anything that can't be released soon to the entire country, so FTTP and brand new HFC areas get held back due to the need to rebuild 20+ year old networks.

Virgin Media UK aren't the jewel in the Liberty crown because they're good. They make more money as they can get away with offering relatively poor services :)
« Last Edit: October 02, 2018, 10:42:01 AM by CarlT »
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Ronski

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Re: Capabilities of hybrid fibre networks
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2018, 07:11:50 PM »

Thanks, was looking through those links comparing the cost to what we pay, the Polish one jumped out at 16.57 (new customers only contracted to June 2019) a month for 500/30  :o or am I missing something?
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gt94sss2

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Re: Capabilities of hybrid fibre networks
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2018, 07:28:00 PM »

Thanks, was looking through those links comparing the cost to what we pay, the Polish one jumped out at 16.57 (new customers only contracted to June 2019) a month for 500/30  :o or am I missing something?

The cost of living is much lower in Poland but so are salaries

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_countries_result.jsp?country1=United+Kingdom&country2=Poland
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DaveC

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Re: Capabilities of hybrid fibre networks
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2018, 07:18:48 PM »

How do residential uploads in other countries fair?

I've been following the Spanish market for the last few years (my partner is from Barcelona), where FTTP is very widely available (and from different suppliers).  Nowadays, it's generally symmetrical, in a range of speeds from 50/50 up to 1000/1000.

However, checking Movistar's website today, I've noticed something I haven't seen before - their base options are now 100/10 and 600/60, but with an upgrade option to a symmetrical service for 5 EUR/month.  But other ISPs just offer symmetrical services as their standard offering.

But pricing in Spain is very confusing - full of introductory offers and combined TV/landline/mobile/broadband bundles. 
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CarlT

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Re: Capabilities of hybrid fibre networks
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2018, 01:58:27 AM »

That cable service from TDC is tasty.

Quote
Cable TV (Coaxial)
This television network is primarily located in the urban areas. TDC Group has rolled out the latest cable TV technology out of almost all TDC-owned plants. so the magic 1 Gbit limit can be reached at addresses with updated technology. Max speed is 1000/500 Mbit.
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CarlT

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Re: Capabilities of hybrid fibre networks
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2018, 10:29:53 PM »

One has a suspicion that VM will increase their downstream lead over Openreach hybrid services and close a good part of the upstream gap early next year.  ;)
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CarlT

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Re: Capabilities of hybrid fibre networks
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2018, 09:44:20 PM »

So much for those more 'zealous' advocates of FTTP. This guy appears to have a small issue within his home network so downstream a bit off, but this is hybrid fibre-coaxial DOCSIS 3.1. His ISP could sell higher speeds if inclined.

:hat:

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Chrysalis

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Re: Capabilities of hybrid fibre networks
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2018, 12:20:16 PM »

I agree, g.fast if done from poles would be a good advancement.  But sadly I think once they realised they could still get the marketing benefits from a much cheaper cabinet only rollout, they went with that.  I feel where they realise deeper fibre is needed they will just do FTTP.

Also I still believe profile 35 vectored bonded VDSL was the better choice than g.fast, look at what the germans are achieving with it.  All they had to do was swap out line cards. Existing modems compatible with it and mature stable tech, also without rolling out deeper fibre.

Openreach seemed to pick the worst out of the 3 options.

1 - g.fast cabinet based, best cost to highest headline speed ratio, however improves only a fraction of vdsl capable lines.  Speed can also drop vs vdsl.
2 - 35b bonded vectored VDSL, same low cost as cabinet based g.fast but will improve almost every circuit, often significantly if previous service was not vectored.  Wont achieve as high headline speeds tho.
3 - node based g.fast, highest cost of the 3 solution as needs deeper fibre, but achieves both highest headline speeds and high % of vdsl circuit improvements of the 3 hybrid solutions.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2018, 12:33:26 PM by Chrysalis »
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Ronski

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Re: Capabilities of hybrid fibre networks
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2018, 01:15:06 PM »

One has a suspicion that VM will increase their downstream lead over Openreach hybrid services and close a good part of the upstream gap early next year.  ;)

That will be good news, lets hope it's free upgrades  :fingers:
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CarlT

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Re: Capabilities of hybrid fibre networks
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2019, 09:26:19 AM »

When I leave VM coverage late this year and move to an FTTP area I'll be taking a broadband capability hit. The irony.  :lol:
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Chrysalis

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Re: Capabilities of hybrid fibre networks
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2019, 07:23:03 PM »

cityfibre or openreach?
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CarlT

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Re: Capabilities of hybrid fibre networks
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2019, 10:01:43 PM »

Openreach. CityFibre would be a symmetrical gigabit. They didn't purchase OLTs with 2.4Gb PON ports and no backhaul ports above a gigabit.  :lol:
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