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Author Topic: Help interpreting DSL stats graphs  (Read 581 times)

jrumball

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Help interpreting DSL stats graphs
« on: September 24, 2018, 02:23:17 PM »

(Please move this if it is in the wrong place)

I wonder if anyone can help me interpret the graphs I am getting back from DSLstats.

I have a FTTC connection on a long line about 2.5km with a Billion 8800NL R2. The line drops quite regulary and is just rubbish, i know the line to my house is old rotting aluminium, but OpenReach is not prepared to connect me to the new Green Box in the village only 500m away as my line is fed from a different cabinet in the preceding village. It's infuriating as I have seen the fibre be pulled straight past my house !

I am trying to figure out where the dips are coming from, is there any obvious cause...

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Thanks
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jelv

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Re: Help interpreting DSL stats graphs
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2018, 08:11:36 AM »

Could you post the SNR margin graph please. What you have posted is just a snapshot at the time you took the screenshot. We need the history including across when the line dropped.
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Weaver

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Re: Help interpreting DSL stats graphs
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2018, 09:19:53 AM »

I think Radio 5 909kHz is around that big spike at tone 210 or thereabouts.
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jrumball

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Re: Help interpreting DSL stats graphs
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2018, 10:17:04 AM »

Brilliant Radio 5....... is there anyway to stop or attenuate it ?

and the SNR Graph for the last 24hrs which is all over the place a lot worse than it has been ! There seems to be a corrilation between the change of speed and errors though.

(by the way how do I get this to show more than 24Hrs like you used to be able to get with MyDSLwebstats)

Thanks
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jelv

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Re: Help interpreting DSL stats graphs
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2018, 10:27:33 AM »

That looks like the DLM needs to intervene and give you a slower line which would then give you more stability.

The SNR variation doesn't look too extreme and there are no obvious spikes that suggest occasional outside interference is causing the disconnect. The SNR going close to zero says to me that it is syncing too fast in the first place.
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roseway

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Re: Help interpreting DSL stats graphs
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2018, 12:00:59 PM »

...
(by the way how do I get this to show more than 24Hrs like you used to be able to get with MyDSLwebstats)

in DSLstats select Configuration --> Graphs.

At the top left you can adjust the sampling rate and the time per page (up to 14 days).
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j0hn

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Re: Help interpreting DSL stats graphs
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2018, 12:46:22 PM »

Quote
Brilliant Radio 5....... is there anyway to stop or attenuate it ?

I very much doubt that is the cause.
It also uses different frequencies in different parts of the country.

Unless the radio transmitter is your next door neighbour then don't worry about it.

Can you post Hlog, QLN and Bitloading please.
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jrumball

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Re: Help interpreting DSL stats graphs
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2018, 12:57:55 PM »

Here you go all over the last 24 hrs...

I am very close to Sandy Heath Transmitter 8km as the crow flies I have to attenuate my DVB signal otherwise every time a car goes past I get multiple signal path problems.

Thanks for the help
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jrumball

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Re: Help interpreting DSL stats graphs
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2018, 02:43:02 PM »

in DSLstats select Configuration --> Graphs.

At the top left you can adjust the sampling rate and the time per page (up to 14 days).

Thanks
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j0hn

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Re: Help interpreting DSL stats graphs
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2018, 03:30:39 PM »

I am very close to Sandy Heath Transmitter 8km as the crow flies I have to attenuate my DVB signal otherwise every time a car goes past I get multiple signal path problems.

Just for info I don't think Sandy Heath broadcasts MW radio.
Local Radio 5 transmitters will be Brookmans Park or Droitwich.

You have 6 or 7 different tones that have 0 or very few bits being used compared to the surrounding tones. It's unlikely these all match a particular radio frequency.

If you go to the bitloading graph and (right?) click on the individual tones it will show underneath the graph details of the selected tone.
You could post the exact tones that have missing bits.

Are you connected to the master socket, and which version is it?
Do you have a filtered faceplate and which model is it?

No idea how you would stop or attenuate a single tone like that.

A properly used Ferrite core may help, but these have to be used correctly to work. You need to buy the correct size and use the correct number of turns/clicks to set them up.
Some people just buy a random ferrite core and slap it on their cable but that would be a waste of time and money.
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jrumball

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Re: Help interpreting DSL stats graphs
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2018, 04:23:51 PM »

Tone 0-6 no bits
Tone 33-41 no bits
Tone 46 no bits
Tone 161 a dip to 6 bits
Tone 184 a dip to 4 bits
Tone 192 a dip to 4 bits
Tone 211 a dip to 2 bits
Tone 269 a dip to 7 bits
tone 274 a dip to 0 bits
Tone 309 a dip to 8 bits
Tone 458 a dip to 2 bits
Tone 512 a dip to 0 bits
Tone 687 a dip to 0 bits

Master Socket yes
Faceplate what ever the latest version is was swapped a few months ago
The joint outside the house has been remade in the last couple of month 3 times and the box in the road has been repaired so it is no longer a swimming pool for rats

The line to the house is just horrendous I now have level 3 care on the phone side and have made multiple complaints about noise on the line, just trying to make the best of a bad situation. What I really want to happen is for OpenReach to turn around a few pairs that were feeding the old cabinet and put them on the new FTTC cabinet 500m away from my house but in the wrong direction. but I just had a generic response from them even though numerous engineers have said it would be a good idea .....
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j0hn

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Re: Help interpreting DSL stats graphs
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2018, 05:33:35 PM »

It's not possible for them to reroute only your line to the closer cabinet. It's not as simple a it seems.

They need to move the entire DP, not just a single line.
There are rules that need followed so as not to cause crippling crosstalk to others in the area.

It's extremely unlikely there are D-Side pairs going between your home and the nearer cabinet. There may be ducting between the 2, there may even be copper pairs. They can't just use a pair to send your VDSL2 signal in the opposite direction to other VDSL2 signals from another cabinet.
They also can't just give you a pair from an E-Side cable as you could cripple local ADSL lines.

Each FTTC cabinet has its own power settings so as not to interfere with the ADSL signal.

What you want can only be done as part of a larger network rearrangement that is extremely expensive and usually only done as part of BDUK funding.

As you are under the 24Mb SuperFast targets it is very possible you will get some kind of BDUK funded project to increase your speed.
There's a few options available to OpenReach.
1. Copper rearrangement, what you seek above.
2. New infill FTTC cabinet nearer your property.
3. FTTP
4. Another provider providing their own solution.

It's not possible for an OpenReach engineer to do what you want. They would likely face disciplinary action for doing so.

Not what you want to hear but bringing up the nearer cabinet is flogging a dead horse.
I have a nearer cabinet. My situation is even easier than yours as my bundle of pairs shares the same duct as bundles serving the nearer cabinet.
My line runs right past the front of this nearer cabinet then continues down the road to a further cabinet.
They would need to move my whole DP though they can't just move my pair.
Been there tried that, not possible.
Your situation is considerably more complex.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2018, 05:36:14 PM by j0hn »
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j0hn

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Re: Help interpreting DSL stats graphs
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2018, 05:42:36 PM »

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jrumball

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Re: Help interpreting DSL stats graphs
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2018, 06:10:01 PM »

It's not possible for them to reroute only your line to the closer cabinet. It's not as simple a it seems.

They need to move the entire DP, not just a single line.
There are rules that need followed so as not to cause crippling crosstalk to others in the area.

It's extremely unlikely there are D-Side pairs going between your home and the nearer cabinet. There may be ducting between the 2, there may even be copper pairs. They can't just use a pair to send your VDSL2 signal in the opposite direction to other VDSL2 signals from another cabinet.
They also can't just give you a pair from an E-Side cable as you could cripple local ADSL lines.

Each FTTC cabinet has its own power settings so as not to interfere with the ADSL signal.

What you want can only be done as part of a larger network rearrangement that is extremely expensive and usually only done as part of BDUK funding.

As you are under the 24Mb SuperFast targets it is very possible you will get some kind of BDUK funded project to increase your speed.
There's a few options available to OpenReach.
1. Copper rearrangement, what you seek above.
2. New infill FTTC cabinet nearer your property.
3. FTTP
4. Another provider providing their own solution.

It's not possible for an OpenReach engineer to do what you want. They would likely face disciplinary action for doing so.

Not what you want to hear but bringing up the nearer cabinet is flogging a dead horse.
I have a nearer cabinet. My situation is even easier than yours as my bundle of pairs shares the same duct as bundles serving the nearer cabinet.
My line runs right past the front of this nearer cabinet then continues down the road to a further cabinet.
They would need to move my whole DP though they can't just move my pair.
Been there tried that, not possible.
Your situation is considerably more complex.

Thanks John I understand what is happening I don't need a lecture maybe just some sympathy lol  :(

I am here to make the best out of a bad situation and improve my connection as no ISP is interested in dealing with open reach and I cannot speak to them directly !

What I am suffering from is a absolutely shambolic state of repair and though of the future in the network around where I live ( at one point I sat with my engineer with a 2L bottle bailing water out the hole where he was trying to repair my line for an Hr as he attempted to repair my line there were other fragile aluminium connections disintegrating in his hands this has now been going on for a year... Now anytime anyone goes down the hole and breaths another line fails and then another person and the visas cycle continues.

I am not allowed direct contact with the people doing the repairs i have to go through my ISP and to add insult to injury  fibre is pulled past my house with no provision for our houses as we will just fall into the 1% that will have to use an alternative which is more expensive and unsuitable for my needs .....

There is no reason for a private company to put an infill cabinet for the few houses that I am part off it is not profitable for their shareholders.

I am here to figure out what the interference is on my line......

 
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j0hn

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Re: Help interpreting DSL stats graphs
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2018, 06:54:39 PM »

Thanks John I understand what is happening I don't need a lecture maybe just some sympathy lol  :(

I wasn't giving a lecture I was simply responding to your post.
I'm not a mind reader and I have absolutely no knowledge of your knowledge of how the network is laid out or how xDSL works.

What I really want to happen is for OpenReach to turn around a few pairs that were feeding the old cabinet and put them on the new FTTC cabinet 500m away from my house but in the wrong direction. but I just had a generic response from them even though numerous engineers have said it would be a good idea .....

Every engineer you ever meet may think it's a good idea.
Engineers aren't trained on the inner workings of xDSL and what causes crosstalk and aren't always told why things like cabinet swaps aren't allowed.
They are trained to do their job. How to keep the line within spec. Training them on all of the above would be a huge expense for very little benefit.

Many people think it's as simple as connecting a cable, or pulling through a new cable between cabinets.
I was trying to be helpful and explaining that what you want isn't possible without a huge amount of work and expense.

Quote
There is no reason for a private company to put an infill cabinet for the few houses that I am part off it is not profitable for their shareholders.

That's why I specifically mentioned BDUK funding.

Quote
I am here to figure out what the interference is on my line......

Which I and others were attempting to help with.
You were the 1 who mentioned changing cabinets like it was some magic quick fix.
I was simply responding to your comment in an attempt to be helpful and explain that what you want isn't as easy as you may think.

Good luck with the interference issues.
I shall leave this for others to try help you. :hat:
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