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Author Topic: 12V/USB UPS for router and Pi  (Read 706 times)

jelv

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12V/USB UPS for router and Pi
« on: September 24, 2018, 10:25:57 AM »

Just stumbled across this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B075QZQSS1/

A pretty obvious idea - anyone any experience of such a device?

The reviews look good.
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chenks

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Re: 12V/USB UPS for router and Pi
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2018, 11:47:56 AM »

plenty poor reviews too.
personally i often find that if something appears to be pretty obvious idea but isn't already widespread then it's not widespread for a reason.

in this case it's just a couple of lithium ion batteries in a case that you have constantly connected to the mains - not a "great" idea in my opinion.
and it's fairly limited in what it can output and support connected to it.
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Weaver

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Re: 12V/USB UPS for router and Pi
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2018, 04:08:57 AM »

A fantastic tip, thanks. I find it very difficult to find these new things.

I am wondering if it is a very low noise solution though if you demand extremely clean power. Quite interesting, given my mindless obsession for a low noise environment for modems.

I am not sure I understand about the power input - does it have a mains charger brick with it?

Also does a dc output cable come with it for eg a dc modem or router?
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chenks

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Re: 12V/USB UPS for router and Pi
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2018, 07:45:29 AM »

I am not sure I understand about the power input - does it have a mains charger brick with it?

you can see what is provided on the amazon page
it's just a glorified power bank and non-usb outputs.

« Last Edit: September 25, 2018, 07:47:50 AM by chenks »
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: 12V/USB UPS for router and Pi
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2018, 08:32:49 AM »

Itís a nice idea but personally I am extremely fussy about any device containing lithium ion batteries.   Badly made batteries, or badly implemented charging circuits, can lead to catastrophic failure modes, ie combustion and fire.

That device does not fill me with confidence, containing quiite a few gramatical slips in the description, for example.  Sometimes, that is a symptom of dodgy imports.

Also, should it require a CE mark?   I donít see any such mark in the photos.  Maybe itís just not shown, or maybe it doesnít need one, or maybe Iím not looking hard enough. :-\
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chenks

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Re: 12V/USB UPS for router and Pi
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2018, 09:17:03 AM »

Itís a nice idea but personally I am extremely fussy about any device containing lithium ion batteries.   Badly made batteries, or badly implemented charging circuits, can lead to catastrophic failure modes, ie combustion and fire.

indeed, unluess it's a trusted brand name then you should avoid at all costs.
especially if you're leaving it connected to mains power all the time, which a UPS would need to be.
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Ixel

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Re: 12V/USB UPS for router and Pi
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2018, 01:20:42 PM »

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jelv

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Re: 12V/USB UPS for router and Pi
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2018, 02:31:02 PM »

Interesting comment in the information about that UPS:

Quote
In fact, out of the many thousands of iPowers sold we have only had an issue with one such router Ė the Huawei HG633 as used by TalkTalk. This router, being the free ISP provided model seems to be made a cheap as possible Ė see this review on the HG633 router. Especially since other Huawei routers work absolutely fine with the iPower DC UPS.
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: 12V/USB UPS for router and Pi
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2018, 09:30:24 AM »

Strikes me a safer and cheaper alternative would be a device that accepts a fistful of non recharcheable alkaline cells, that are normally disconnected but switched into service in the event of power failure.  A lot safer than a permanently connected lithium ion solution, imho, and no need for the fussy charging circuitry.

Shelf-life of alkaline cells is decent if not actually used, so simply discarding via normal recycling disposal and replacing the cells when needs be, probably not too much of a burden.

Not sure if anybody makes such a device?   Since it has no Ďchargingí function to perform, it could even just be inserted into the modemís supply lead, retaining the original power brick, possibly with a crude relay performing one-off modem power-cycle & resnc,  at the time of switchover?
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johnson

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Re: 12V/USB UPS for router and Pi
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2018, 10:31:57 AM »

Not sure why so many people have safety concerns about lithium ion cells, every portable gizmo in the world has them and barring being physically punctured (see the galaxy note) they are fine.

The device in question even appears to use cased 18650 or similar type cells.

If you have a problem with this device then I hope you keep your phones and laptops in fire proof bags when charging...

I have used and abused bare lithium poly packs and the worst outcome is "puffing" and not holding a charge, you need to put a screwdriver through them for fireworks.
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: 12V/USB UPS for router and Pi
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2018, 10:59:53 AM »

The underlying problem with lithium ion cells, imho, is that they pack an enormous amount of energy into a tightly confined space.   If anything should go awry, that sudden release of that energy, in such a small volume, can have dire consequences.

In order to render them safe, high manufacturing quality is a must.  Even then, there are strict constraints on charging circuitry, mustnít charge too fast, mustnít over-discharge, etc, else problems can arise.   It is probably safe to assume that the likes of Apple and Samsung etc, are highly dillegent in choice of suppliers and manufacturing plant, as well as circuit design.  I therefor do not worry unduly about leaving my iPhones on charge.  Yes there is a risk, but the risk seems acceptable.

But I would not want to leave an unknown brand on charge unattended, and Iíd be choosy about storing it, away from combustible materials.  For appuratus that must be left unattended, Iíd simply prefer a different technology; my DECT phones have NiMH batteries, for example.    I donít totally avoid Lithium, I recently got a lot of fun out of a sub £20 RC toy helicopter - but I never left the room while it was charging. :)
« Last Edit: September 26, 2018, 11:05:08 AM by sevenlayermuddle »
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Weaver

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Re: 12V/USB UPS for router and Pi
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2018, 11:18:58 AM »

There was a thread a while ago where we talked about battery power for modems. I would love to run mine off lead-acid batteries, for ultra-low noise superstition reasons.
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johnson

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Re: 12V/USB UPS for router and Pi
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2018, 11:42:46 AM »

Yeah I agree with most of your points sevenlayermuddle, I guess its the 24/7 unattended charge thats most concerning. With all the millions of li-ion/li-po devices people have, none are left 24/7 connected to a charging circuit of unknown quality. I'd still find it hard to believe that a manufacturer could make something so bad it didnt regulate charge into a lithium cell and stay in business long enough to get devices into UK homes... but who knows.

There was a thread a while ago where we talked about battery power for modems. I would love to run mine off lead-acid batteries, for ultra-low noise superstition reasons.

I ran my modem from an old car battery for a time with the trickle charger only connected when needed when trying to find the source of some noise, have to say when the noise wasnt active there was not appreciable difference.
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Weaver

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Re: 12V/USB UPS for router and Pi
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2018, 12:01:10 PM »

@johnson - Others pointed out iirc that junk inside the modem would probably outweigh the effect of low levels of noise down the dc line being either present or not.

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