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Author Topic: DSL Versions - v - Standards  (Read 1553 times)

kitz

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DSL Versions - v - Standards
« on: September 11, 2018, 12:24:20 AM »

Whilst I'm having a better day for typing (and thus confidence to bring up the topic), I have a huge favour to ask please.

I'm sure it's something most of us has been guilty of from time to time...  and that is using technology (ITU-T) specification name rather than the standard version name.    I'm not talking about using incorrect terms such as 'fibre', but the use of G.xxx.x names.   ie
ADSL2+   ITU-T G.992.5
VDSL2    ITU-T G.993.2
G.INP     ITU-T G.998.4
G.FAST   ITU-T G.9700

In days gone by, I wouldn't have had any difficulty knowing which is which, but now are times when I find it hard to immediately differentiate.   Over the past few months it's become increasing difficult and many occasions I've had to actually refer back to the main site before I knew which technology was being talked about.   

It's embarrassing to admit defeat with something that once came instinctively, but having FM means that quite often numbers & letters (and even words) blur.  Although I may have thought I'd typed the right spec - its not actually what the forum software decides to print it out as ;)
I'd kept quiet for a while, because it's frustrating that on bad days to say I struggle, BUT it's also made me increasingly aware that the average person in the street just wouldn't have a clue either. 

One of the reasons the main site is so popular is that 15yrs ago I was able to read the real heavy tech journals & white papers and be able to put things across in a way that Joe Bloggs was more likely to be able to comprehend.   I don't think I quite knew what I was letting myself in for, because back then there wasn't even the likes of Wikipedia to explain some of the topics I was covering. 
IMHO the reason it worked was I tried to be technically correct, yet where ever possible avoid any terms that could easily confuse or come across as jargon.   You all know I hate the misuse of the word 'fibre' with a passion,  but if we have any chance of helping (and educating) other consumers,  then we should be using the version name rather than the ITU-T spec number. 

I don't mind if when talking about technical journals etc if you use the standards, but I'm referring to the help threads where using the numbers are likely to just go straight over the head of the general public.  I really value the input made by the regs, so I hope you don't see this as criticism as it's aim is to point out that if I struggle, then I've no doubt many others will too and that sometimes it's best to use the simpler & common terms to aid understanding.

Cheers guys :)     
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jelv

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Re: DSL Versions - v - Standards
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2018, 07:59:09 AM »

Fully support this. The problem is that some of the numbers are so similar. You haven't included the other ADSL versions. Ive mixed up G992.3 (ADSL2) and G993.2 (VDSL2) before now as they are exactly the same digits with the last two swapped round and I don't have any issues like you (at least I think I don't!).

As we sometimes see modem stats posted with the numbers, would it be possible to have a button in the headers above the forums which popped up a handy reference table with all the numbers and names? It could sit beside Rate your ISP
« Last Edit: September 11, 2018, 08:03:55 AM by jelv »
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kitz

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Re: DSL Versions - v - Standards
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2018, 10:21:45 AM »

Thanks jelv.  The list was just a small sample, there's many more I could have mentioned and not just limited to G numbers - there's others such as RFCs etc.
It was the G numbers that got me started on thinking how hard and confusing it must be for the average person to understand nvm anyone with dyslexia

Several years ago I (unsuccessfully) searched for an SMF mod which would automatically pop up over certain words to give a brief resume of their meaning.   Because there wasn't it's why we started our own Glossary


The only thing I came across that may also help is the poster making use of BBCode by inserting [acronym] or [abbr] tags in their own posts eg

G.992.5
DLM


Code: [Select]
[abbr=ADSL2+]G.992.5[/abbr]
[acronym=Dynamic Line Management]DLM[/acronym]


Quote
would it be possible to have a button in the headers above the forums which popped up a handy reference table with all the numbers and names? It could sit beside Rate your ISP

Whilst not a popup as such, adding a link to the Glossary underneath the Rate your ISP would be doable.


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jelv

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Re: DSL Versions - v - Standards
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2018, 10:42:09 AM »

You could possibly use the word censor to automatically replace G.992.5 with [acronym=ADSL2+]G.992.5[/acronym] which would then automatically insert that in to everybody's posts.

Only one issue with that cunning plan - there's no mouseover on touch screen devices such as phones!
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jelv

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Re: DSL Versions - v - Standards
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2018, 10:48:23 AM »

Wouldn't the Glossary be more suited to the Wiki? The table of ITU-T specs. would definitely be good on there.
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kitz

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Re: DSL Versions - v - Standards
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2018, 11:04:11 AM »

You could possibly use the word censor to automatically replace G.992.5 with [acronym=ADSL2+][acronym=ADSL2+]G.992.5[/acronym][/acronym] which would then automatically insert that in to everybody's posts.

Just tried it with G.992.5 and yes that works.   The rest will have to wait until I have more time.

Quote
Only one issue with that cunning plan - there's no mouseover on touch screen devices such as phones!

:(


Quote
Wouldn't the Glossary be more suited to the Wiki? The table of ITU-T specs. would definitely be good on there.

You are probably correct.  iirc we started the glossary before I installed the wiki.   

The idea of the wiki was to make it easy for other reg members to also add things they felt useful.     Although the wiki is 'closed to edits' that is purely to avoid bots or unknown numpties making any edits.   We are quite happy to add any of our reg members to the wiki team - linky

« Last Edit: September 11, 2018, 03:49:23 PM by kitz »
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jelv

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Re: DSL Versions - v - Standards
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2018, 11:29:09 AM »

Just tried it with G.992.5 and yes that works.

It's made an "interesting" mess of my post!
Looks like replacing with the same text can make it iterative and you end up with two levels of acronym round the same word.  :(
« Last Edit: September 11, 2018, 11:34:09 AM by jelv »
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kitz

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Re: DSL Versions - v - Standards
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2018, 01:28:23 PM »

Ack!  So it does.  It looks even worse in my post where I've quoted you  :'(
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jelv

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Re: DSL Versions - v - Standards
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2018, 03:09:56 PM »

I thought there might be a kludge which avoid this and that is to put some invisible bbcode in the middle of the replacement text.

But when I tried it looks like it strips the bbcode before looking up in the word censor so that doesn't work. That was a bug with the word censor for many years which I wondered if we could exploit.

I'm thinking we give up with that plan as it gets too messy.
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kitz

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Re: DSL Versions - v - Standards
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2018, 03:45:31 PM »

You're correct - best removing as I've just noticed it's also made a mess of my code block in a post further up by inserting acronym tags when there previously wasn't any
That has the potential for screwing up any line stats have have the adsl standard in them. :/


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« Last Edit: September 11, 2018, 03:48:06 PM by kitz »
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Westie

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Re: DSL Versions - v - Standards
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2018, 10:15:47 PM »

I speak as Joe Average, who's understanding of broadband before I came across this site was limited to following my ISP's instructions as to which cable to connect to which port of their router! Thanks to the knowledge imparted in "layman's" terms, and the more-than-generous help and support freely given by many of the forum members, not only to me but also to others, I now understand a little more.

I am still baffled by some most of the more technical stuff, but I have reached an age where I have learned to be selective in my quest for knowledge. So thank you, @kitz, I really appreciate your attempts to make things understandable without dumbing them down. Thank you too, Melvin @jelv (who invented autocorrect?.), for the Version/Standards table you have recently added to the wiki.

Hopefully I shan't need to refer to it too often, but it's comforting to know it's there when required! :)



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jelv

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Re: DSL Versions - v - Standards
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2018, 12:03:37 AM »

The wiki page is still a work in progress - ivey been out all day today and have some real work to do tomorrow.
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tickmike

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Re: DSL Versions - v - Standards
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2018, 02:52:19 PM »

Maybe if we all add it to our 'signatures' below it would help.

I have added to mine (I hope I have got it right) I have been on this forum for years but this G992.3 still confuses my three 'Brain Cells' I have left  ;D
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licquorice

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Re: DSL Versions - v - Standards
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2018, 04:08:16 PM »

Contrary to others, as somebody that lived and breathed ITU specs in a previous life, I much prefer the accuracy of a definite specification number for a product rather than the common definitions. At least they are slightly better than the BT 'Superfast', 'Ultrafast' and Infinity names. I'll get me coat!
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kitz

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Re: DSL Versions - v - Standards
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2018, 03:13:00 PM »

Maybe if we all add it to our 'signatures' below it would help.

Shouldn't be any need mike.   Most of us here will know what adsl2 is :)  It's the use of numbers which causes confusion for the vast majority of people. :/

I've noticed that we are about the only forum that tends to do this, not sure when it started :/   Technical journals, white papers, educational institutions, text books aimed at degree level, the official Broadband Forum all use the name of the technology and if necessary the version number eg ADSL/ADSL2+/VDSL2 etc.

Even the ITU themselves always refer to the name of the technology, whilst the G.x name is a recommendation of how xDSL transceivers (ie modems and DSLAMs should work.    eg this is the description for G.992.1

Quote from: ITU
ASYMMETRIC DIGITAL SUBSCRIBER LINE (ADSL) TRANSCEIVERS

This Recommendation describes Asymmetric Digital Subscriber Line (ADSL) Transceivers on a
metallic twisted pair that allows high-speed data transmission between the network operator end
(ATU-C) and the customer end (ATU-R). This Recommendation provides a variety of bearer
channels in conjunction with one of three other services dependent on the environment:


The ITU-T G.x name is what defines the recommended international standards for the technology.   Its kind of like a rule book for the technology, with the G.x name being the rule number that describes either how the technology should work or how the equipment using the technology should work.   
We don't refer to ethernet at G.8xx / coaxial as G.x / or a Loss of Signal in line stats as G.775.  Nor do we call a telephone handset an ITU-T P.35. :(

TBH I'm not even sure if using the G.x name is correct as the technology can call on several recommendations eg VDSL2 also encompasses ITU-T G.997.1. (PHY) as well as the enhancements to G.992.1 and so on.

Modem manufacturers though are correct if they stamp G.993.2 on their boxes as it means the manufacturer has followed the recommended ITU guidelines for VDSL2 transceivers
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