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Author Topic: It Crept Up On Me  (Read 1771 times)

burakkucat

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It Crept Up On Me
« on: October 04, 2022, 01:16:32 AM »

My telephony and Internet access is provided by TalkTalk and, as a consequence, I cannot use the BT Wholesale Broadband Availability Checker by my telephone number. However I can make use of it via my UPRN.

I checked, earlier this year, in April and then again, two days ago, this October. The two attached images, below, show what I saw on those occasions.

Surprising as it may seem, I have absolutely no need for such a product. If only there was some way that I could donate it to someone who could definitely make use of it. Here I am thinking of Weaver.  :)
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kitz

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Re: It Crept Up On Me
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2022, 07:16:35 AM »

Nice.   

Mostly due to crosstalk, I can no longer reach 80/20, but I seem to be fine on 60Mbps and too weary to bother trying to get a resolution from Openreach   My next door neighbour has subscribed to  FTTP.  I know they were getting fed up of I think what is the same daily noise burst I get, but it seems to knock them off line. Openreach seemed to be ever round there. I have a strong suspicion that other modems aree less kind with the daily effects of SHINE and my sync would be even lower if it weren't for the Zyxel.  I'm seldom using the connection at the time so its no big dea aside from DLM banding me.    In some respects Im surprised that the geeky side of me hasn't jumped at the chance for FTTP but there is economics & the Tunstall modem for the alarm.    I believe there is now a new version which uses mobile.  It comes at a price though - quite a lot more + installation.  With just about everything else going up in price now is not the best time.  I'll review when some work around the house if it ever gets completed. 
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tubaman

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Re: It Crept Up On Me
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2022, 08:01:32 AM »

Lucky you to have FTTP available, and to be getting decent line rates on FTTC.
Here's what I see, with no FTTP even in sight.  :(
I do appreciate though that even I am fortunate in what I can get compared to some others.

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kitz

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Re: It Crept Up On Me
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2022, 04:46:47 PM »

On the flip side.  My neighbour got FTTP.  I got a good chunk of SNR back.

Code: [Select]
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 29283 Kbps, Downstream rate = 77047 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 60000 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        10.1            12.3
Attn(dB):        0.0             0.0
Pwr(dBm):        6.4             6.4

Prev stats from earlier this year.

Code: [Select]
Max:    Upstream rate = 25644 Kbps, Downstream rate = 66795 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 60000 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        7.6             9.5
Attn(dB):        0.0             0.0
Pwr(dBm):        6.4             6.4

I'm still banded at 60Mbps though.  It's probably been like that for a couple of months as I seldom check stats and I think that 2 neighbours may have got FTTP.  I only noticed the increase because my line went down and I had no connection earlier this week.  I lost connection at about 1pm and it refused to resync so had to be logged with Openreach.   I don't know what caused it as it came back up without them visiting the premises.  Plusnet did say when I logged the fault that they wouldn't need access.   I don't know if there was any co-incidence in the fact that an Openreach engineer was working at the footplate at the end of my drive the day before. It looked like next door but one may have been getting FTTP, but I wasnt well enough to go outside and have a closer look-see what he was doing. 

It did re-enforce how much I rely on my broadband service.  No food shopping, no banking, no surfing & no wifi calls.  Also no streaming music nor streaming tv so no iplayer/netflix and stuck with terrestrial TV. Alexa not working was a real PITA as she controls my lighting, heating, shopping lists, reminders and the countless things I ask her during the day.  I really did miss her not being able to work.   It also meant my falls alarm monitor was down. :/
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burakkucat

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Re: It Crept Up On Me
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2022, 05:43:22 PM »

An update . . . My service provider, TalkTalk, are now trying to push me to accept an installation of CityFibre infrastructure.

Grump-cat iz not happy, as he doesn't want non-Openreach infrastructure. It would be as bad as having an installation of Vermin Media. If a change of supplier is decided upon, it would mean the existing infrastructure would become redundant and yet more disruption in "The Cattery" whilst Black Sheep's flock install their own. What is the advantage of a CityFibre based installation?
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: It Crept Up On Me
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2022, 07:32:11 PM »

An update . . . My service provider, TalkTalk, are now trying to push me to accept an installation of CityFibre infrastructure.

Grump-cat iz not happy, as he doesn't want non-Openreach infrastructure. It would be as bad as having an installation of Vermin Media. If a change of supplier is decided upon, it would mean the existing infrastructure would become redundant and yet more disruption in "The Cattery" whilst Black Sheep's flock install their own. What is the advantage of a CityFibre based installation?

Your upload will be as fast as your download, that's a pretty biggie for me personally.
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burakkucat

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Re: It Crept Up On Me
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2022, 08:48:34 PM »

Your upload will be as fast as your download, that's a pretty biggie for me personally.

Ah, I see. Thank you. (The asymmetry of xDSL based services has always been a bit of an irritation for me. I regard my current VDSL2 based service (using the Openreach 40/10 Mbps product) as 10/10 Mbps with capabilities to burst to 40 Mbps DS!  ;)  )
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kitz

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Re: It Crept Up On Me
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2022, 03:57:24 PM »

Residential connectivity has practically always had some form of asymmetry - even dial up wasn't fully symmetrical eg 56k (33kbps up) v90 (40 kbps up).

2Mb SDSL was available for small business lines but take up was relatively low and it died out after the introduction of rate adaptive 'up to' speeds.  Companies requiring higher speeds used dedicated leased lines. I recall doing some network costings circa 2000 and even just the T1/T3 connections could be eye wateringly expensive.

The vast majority of users utilise far more downstream than upstream data. Upstream usage is just a tiny portion of internet activity.  When the technology has a limited bitstream then I'm glad that there are ITU standards with band plans and spectral masks.  Practically all (copper) has a physical bit-load limitation. Then add into the mix rate adaptive dsl so that every single line has the opportunity to sync as fast as it can, then asymmetric is a genius idea.  You can't just carve up each line so that it can get 50/50 - it would turn into crosstalk hell without band plans... also without band plans and spectral shaping total overall speed would likely be less.
 

Some users of this forum are't typical users, we may run servers or have network requirements that are above and residential typical usage.  Even so I'm more than happy that the Boffins at ITU made recommendations to standardise (asymmetric) dsl band plans. Current system sets a guide for the max upstream and let downstream fill whats left.  Widening the upstream bands to give more upload and you could end up with long lines getting less downstream speed than up.    When you're sharing a Multiplexer to cut costs with many other lines of differing length, the alternative is fixed rate where the line syncs... or it doesnt :/
   
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: It Crept Up On Me
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2022, 08:12:19 PM »

Speeds were symmetrical until 56K/V.90 though.  ISDN was also symmetrical I believe?  But I do agree, it was necessary to make that sacrifice to make DSL usable over such varying line lengths.

Makes less sense on FTTP though, at least for the alt-nets of which many are going for XGS-PON now.  Plus the backhaul presumably is symmetrical so it makes sense to make use of it.  Even on GPON given you're only sharing with 30 properties and the odds of even one of them taking out the top-tier package is slim, it makes sense to let people use the capacity that is already there.
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