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Author Topic: G.INP changes?  (Read 2015 times)

Terry74

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G.INP changes?
« on: August 17, 2018, 12:11:04 AM »

Just got VDSL after years of ADSL. So..... maybe things still settling in.

Have now changed my router to trusty Zyxel VMG8924-B10A, so able to see stats.

Noticed a small change in last couple of days. G.INP appears to be on both up as well as down.

Certainly, the rate up has improved from around 4 to 5.5 Mb/s.

Is this to be expected? I understood it was only on down side.
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re0

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Re: G.INP changes?
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2018, 12:39:43 AM »

In circumstances where the error rate on the upstream is high, G.INP can actually be enabled for upstream where supported by hardware.

What modem were you using before? Perhaps the change of the modem has lead to the increase of upsteam. If the upstream increase took place after the modem change, perhaps you have stats from before the increase?
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ISP: Gigaclear - Hyperfast 900 (up to 940 Mbps symmetrical)

Terry74

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Re: G.INP changes?
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2018, 08:34:33 AM »

Was previously using BT Smart Hub, so limited stats and unfortunately no pictures.

There is said to be engineering work going on at the cabinet. No one can yet order upgrades.

I managed to sneek in on first day it became available.

I don't remember seeing high error rates either way prior to this change.

Just thought it unusual to see this.
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adslmax

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Re: G.INP changes?
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2018, 10:25:21 AM »

@Terry74 What does your stats say under Bearer 0 to check INPRein to check if your line on Re Tx High?
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re0

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Re: G.INP changes?
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2018, 11:34:36 AM »

Was previously using BT Smart Hub, so limited stats and unfortunately no pictures.
Without seeing previous stats, I do not want to speculate too much. I just wanted to know when the upstream increase occurred (and which modem you were using at the time of the increase) but in the absence of historical stats it will be impossible to pinpoint why.

I don't remember seeing high error rates either way prior to this change.
The chances are that you had errors caused by bursts of noise, so impulse noise protection had been enabled on the upstream to deal with those. It may be only temporary, unless the DLM believes it is necessary to retain it (for however long the bursts of noise exist).

Just thought it unusual to see this.
Quite uncommon to see it on the upstream if you ask me (downstream is very common), but it is certainly not "unusual" if the line conditions require it - and the DSLAM is Huawei (ECI cabinets do not support G.INP).

@Terry74 What does your stats say under Bearer 0 to check INPRein to check if your line on Re Tx High?
Max, you seem so eager to find out how many people actually have ReTX low on 3 dB! ;D
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Terry74

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Re: G.INP changes?
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2018, 01:04:18 PM »

@adslmax

Full Stats - now I've found out how to use code window!!

Code: [Select]
Stats summary

Stats recorded 17 Aug 2018 12:33:39

DSLAM type / SW version: BDCM:0xa48c (164.140) / v0xa48c
Modem/router firmware:  AnnexA version - A2pv6F039v.d26a
DSL mode:                VDSL2 Profile 17a
Status:                  Showtime
Uptime:                  1 day 10 hours 3 min 21 sec
Resyncs:                6 (since 13 Aug 2018 16:30:36)

Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB):  26.6 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): Not available on VDSL2
Connection speed (kbps): 30102 5532
SNR margin (dB):        3.1 6.1
Power (dBm):            11.9 7.1
Interleave depth:        4 4
INP:                    51.00 41.00
G.INP:                  Enabled Enabled
Vectoring status:        5 (VECT_UNCONFIGURED)

RSCorr/RS (%):          0.0903 0.0267
RSUnCorr/RS (%):        0.0000 0.0000
ES/hour:                0 0

Connection stats

xdslctl info --stats
xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 5532 Kbps, Downstream rate = 29922 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 5532 Kbps, Downstream rate = 30102 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        3.1             6.1
Attn(dB):        26.6            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        11.9            7.1

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           -6              -6
B:              227             162
M:              1               1
T:              0               0
R:              12              10
S:              0.0000          0.0000
L:              7970            1478
D:              4               4
I:              240             173
N:              240             173
Q:              4               4
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                72              12
TxQueue:                18              6
G.INP Framing:          18              18
G.INP lookback:         18              6
RRC bits:               24              24
                        Bearer 1
MSGc:           90              58
B:              0               0
M:              2               2
T:              2               2
R:              16              16
S:              10.6667         16.0000
L:              24              16
D:              1               1
I:              32              32
N:              32              32
Q:              0               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                0               0
TxQueue:                0               0
G.INP Framing:          0               0
G.INP lookback:         0               0
RRC bits:               0               0

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            0               0
OHFErr:         494             0
RS:             2027237208              3929294
RSCorr:         1830985         1048
RSUnCorr:       0               0
                        Bearer 1
OHF:            7630817         322405
OHFErr:         1               0
RS:             45784529                584979
RSCorr:         423             868
RSUnCorr:       1               0

                        Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:         6313844         1717
rtx_c:          22627           1832
rtx_uc:         30053           5160

                        G.INP Counters
LEFTRS:         9               17
minEFTR:        30100           5527
errFreeBits:    56252509                10477065

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    2799625059              0
Data Cells:     88261408                0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

                        Bearer 1
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    0               0
Data Cells:     0               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             8               0
SES:            8               0
UAS:            28              28
AS:             122601

                        Bearer 0
INP:            51.00           41.00
INPRein:        1.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            0.00
OR:             0.01            0.01
AgR:            30168.15        5548.59

                        Bearer 1
INP:            2.50            4.00
INPRein:        2.50            4.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            16.06           16.06
OR:             47.81           31.87
AgR:            47.81   31.87

Bitswap:        49040/49111             139/139

Total time = 1 days 10 hours 3 min 49 sec
FEC:            1830985         1048
CRC:            494             0
ES:             8               0
SES:            8               0
UAS:            28              28
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 15 minutes time = 3 min 49 sec
FEC:            390             0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            1613            1
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 1 day time = 10 hours 3 min 49 sec
FEC:            779883          66
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:            1051102         982
CRC:            494             0
ES:             8               0
SES:            8               0
UAS:            28              28
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Since Link time = 1 days 10 hours 3 min 19 sec
FEC:            1830985         1048
CRC:            494             0
ES:             8               0
SES:            8               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
NTR: mipsCntAtNtr=0 ncoCntAtNtr=0
 >
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Terry74

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Re: G.INP changes?
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2018, 01:24:11 PM »

@re0

Was using zyxel modem when increase occurred. Only happened a couple of days ago. Been using it for about 2 weeks.

Left Smart Hub on circuit for about first week. Then got too curious.

I have tried a couple of different modems in since that time, another vmg8924, which had lower sync rate (?) and a vmg3925 in modem only mode with an Edgerouter X behind, trying to get ipv6 to work (successfully). But last week reverted to principle vmg8924. Then this happened.

I suppose this could all be my fault, however, did try to leave half hour between modem changes so as not to affect DLM.

Anyway, thanks for your interest.

Terry
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re0

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Re: G.INP changes?
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2018, 02:00:30 PM »

Could be many different factors. While it has been reported for G.INP to allow* for an increase the sync speed, I thought the gain on your connection was not exactly proportionate to your previously reported sync speed. That is why I wanted to assume that perhaps another change had taken place that lead to the increase in the upstream (regardless of whether it was user, DLM or external).

Either way, when you lose G.INP then you may also lose some of the upstream sync.

*G.INP is not some sort of magical being that can itself give you more speed. The way it works is by using an additional bearer to re-transmit packets that have been received erroneously. The increase in sync speed is merely because the G.INP implementation actually makes it so any overheads that are typically used for error correction can be reclaimed for sync speed.

Edit: Made changes to clarify post
« Last Edit: August 17, 2018, 02:07:22 PM by re0 »
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ISP: Gigaclear - Hyperfast 900 (up to 940 Mbps symmetrical)

ejs

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Re: G.INP changes?
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2018, 03:29:42 PM »

The way it works is by using an additional bearer to re-transmit packets that have been received erroneously.

This seems to be a common misconception, but the additional bearer channel does not carry retransmitted packets. It carries the overhead (management) messages, for things such as organising bit swaps or reporting the stats to the other end.

A modem will attain the best speed it can subject to meeting the error rate requirement, and the modem will take into account whatever error correction abilities are being used when working out what speed your line can manage. So it's possible that with retransmission providing very effective error correction, you can get more bandwidth.
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re0

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Re: G.INP changes?
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2018, 04:05:32 PM »

There's nothing wrong with a bit of education. Noted. :graduate:
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ISP: Gigaclear - Hyperfast 900 (up to 940 Mbps symmetrical)