Kitz ADSL Broadband Information
adsl spacer  
Support this site
Home Broadband ISPs Tech Routers Wiki Forum
 
     
   Compare ISP   Rate your ISP
   Glossary   Glossary
 
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Author Topic: New cabs and FTTP  (Read 1294 times)

Weaver

  • Addicted Kitizen
  • *****
  • Posts: 7728
  • Retd sw dev; A&A; 4 7km ADSL2; IPv6; Firebrick
New cabs and FTTP
« on: August 12, 2018, 01:59:20 AM »

Given the Scottish Government's Reaching 100 thing, there could, just possibly, be the chance that we might see some faster flavour of internet access in Heasta, the village on the edge which I live, itself.

What, if anything, is the chance then that if a cab of some sort is parked in the village, that FTTP will be available? Are we better to hope for things to be delayed, so we have a reduced risk of getting FTTC offered not FTTP? How does it all work?

Another ignorant question : is there such a thing as FTTC and FTTP deployment in close proximity? Or a load of properties being supplied with FTTC while one, maybe a business, asks for and gets FTTP at the same time without a lottery win or being done with completely independent infrastructure?

One final thing: what radius do planners aim for round FTTC cabs? Here there are very few houses - I am guessing at 25 so in total. I am trying to count them in my head without much success. I have not been out of the house, let alone down the village, in a few years and I have not seen the new houses. If you look at the map, you can see that the village is spread out along a line say 1300m long in a ribbon development, all along the minor road, from me, the first at the very top, down to the shore. With FTTC they would have to decide whether to spend money to deploy more cabs to keep the radii down, but for such a tiny number of properties, and they would make no more money per month from it.

Would that be a fortuitous argument in favour of the planners choosing to do the right thing and going FTTP instead because then there are no radius problems?
Logged

burakkucat

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 27399
  • Over the Rainbow Bridge
    • The ELRepo Project
Re: New cabs and FTTP
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2018, 02:11:33 AM »

Regarding the properties (known to BT) in Heasta, I will suggest that you enter just your postcode into the BT Broadband Availability Checker, left-click on "Submit" and then look at the list so displayed.
Logged
:cat:  100% Linux and, previously, Unix. Co-founder of the ELRepo Project.

Please consider making a donation to support the running of this site.

j0hn

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 2610
Re: New cabs and FTTP
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2018, 03:49:21 AM »

If they can slap an FTTC cabinet right in the middle of those 25 properties (though usually it's at the edge of) and get everyone above "Superfast" speeds (24Mb or 30Mb depending who's definition is used) then that would be a possibility.

They would weigh up the cost of a DSLAM against the cost of providinng everyone FTTP and go for the cheapest that gets them SuperFast.

Extremely rural areas tend to buck the trend though. We see lots of wireless solutions used in rural areas.

I recall a self build fibre programme (following the B4RN ethos) attempting to get going in Skye. Unfortunately it was refused state aid funding and there were huge capacity issues at the exchange so the plans fell through.

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/7772-north-skye-broadband-backs-out-over-state-aid-problems
http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/t/4591500-is-there-a-limit-to-the-number-of-fttc-cabs-per-pcp.html
Logged
Plusnet FTTC 80/20 -  ECI now Huawei cab
retx low @ 3dB target SNRM
Zyxel VMG1312-B10A bridged with 1508 MTU + Asus RT-AC68U running Asuswrt-Merlin

Weaver

  • Addicted Kitizen
  • *****
  • Posts: 7728
  • Retd sw dev; A&A; 4 7km ADSL2; IPv6; Firebrick
Re: New cabs and FTTP
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2018, 05:08:29 AM »

Damn, that is bad news.

A lame general ignorant question: does the presence of an FTTC cab nearby improve one's chances or reduce one's costs for getting individual one-off FTTP if there is such a thing?
Logged

Ronski

  • Helpful
  • Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 3291
Re: New cabs and FTTP
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2018, 07:46:13 AM »

Depends where the aggregation node is, and in all likely hood that would be back in Broadford. I suppose if they were thinking ahead then they would put one near the village, but as that would increase costs its unlikely.

FTTPod (On Demand) is delivered from the nearest aggregation node, so even if you had an FTTC cabinet outside your house they would probably still have to run the fibre from Broadford.
Logged
Formerly restrained by ECI and ali,  now surfing along at 390/36  ;D

Weaver

  • Addicted Kitizen
  • *****
  • Posts: 7728
  • Retd sw dev; A&A; 4 7km ADSL2; IPv6; Firebrick
Re: New cabs and FTTP
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2018, 09:03:27 AM »

Oh damn, there goes that hope. Thanks for setting me straight.

Do I pray to the gods then that there is no FTTC soon, to increase my chances of skipping the final death throes of the coppersaurus altogether? I wonder if there will be increased political pressure on BT to offer FTTP to whole small areas in years to come ? One can only hope that economies of scale will kick in to help BT too, and maybe they could pressurise suppliers against a background of larger optical orders?
Logged

Ronski

  • Helpful
  • Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 3291
Re: New cabs and FTTP
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2018, 09:44:02 AM »

If they did install FTTC then it would most likely be an AIO and the most obvious place would be where your lines branch off from the main cable. The other properties will all be downstream from you, the furthest from you should get around 15Mpbs as a minimum, probably a lot faster if you have thicker copper.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2018, 09:48:19 AM by Ronski »
Logged
Formerly restrained by ECI and ali,  now surfing along at 390/36  ;D

Weaver

  • Addicted Kitizen
  • *****
  • Posts: 7728
  • Retd sw dev; A&A; 4 7km ADSL2; IPv6; Firebrick
Re: New cabs and FTTP
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2018, 09:49:22 AM »

Oh, I see. I just assumed that a cab for FTTC would be in the centre of the village, to minimise the worst-case distances. But am I understanding correctly, since I am first, it would be near me, so I would be the lucky one?
Logged

Ronski

  • Helpful
  • Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 3291
Re: New cabs and FTTP
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2018, 01:27:17 PM »

Yes you are understanding correctly, if they put it further down in the village then they would need to run cables back up to any houses before the cab - which means more work. So it's far more practical to put it where all the cables start to spread out from, and as that's likely going to be at your DP then that makes you the lucky one.
Logged
Formerly restrained by ECI and ali,  now surfing along at 390/36  ;D

shambly

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 23
Re: New cabs and FTTP
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2018, 03:54:45 PM »

Yes you are understanding correctly, if they put it further down in the village then they would need to run cables back up to any houses before the cab - which means more work. So it's far more practical to put it where all the cables start to spread out from, and as that's likely going to be at your DP then that makes you the lucky one.

Yes, in our village of 250 houses, the AIO was placed at the next DP up the village to where our cable merged - and Openreach where unable to connect our house and all the others (~40) the 'wrong' side of the cabinet to it. The logic was that they didn't want to disadvantage households that choose not to upgrade from ADSL to VDSL by making their lines longer (looping up to the new PCP and back). We were talking 150m out of >5km but even a petition from every house that would have been impacted wouldn't change their policy. Luckily we got BDUK funded FTTP to infill our 40 houses ~18 months later.
Logged

Weaver

  • Addicted Kitizen
  • *****
  • Posts: 7728
  • Retd sw dev; A&A; 4 7km ADSL2; IPv6; Firebrick
Re: New cabs and FTTP
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2018, 12:05:19 AM »

In all cases, the policy should be simply screw those who do not care about upgrading, they should not be allowed to prevent progress and in that particular case, if they chose slowness, then that is their choice. Might sound harsh but progress must not be held back. Also the policy should be to get rid of ADSL as quick as poss so that FTTC speeds can be increased with the removal of interference / compatibility concerns.
Logged

shambly

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 23
Re: New cabs and FTTP
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2018, 10:08:04 AM »

In all cases, the policy should be simply screw those who do not care about upgrading, they should not be allowed to prevent progress and in that particular case, if they chose slowness, then that is their choice. Might sound harsh but progress must not be held back. Also the policy should be to get rid of ADSL as quick as poss so that FTTC speeds can be increased with the removal of interference / compatibility concerns.

Alas, in my direct experience, Openreach policy was the direct opposite. The service of those happy with 1Mbit/s must not be harmed in the name of progress.. even though everyone whose service would be "harmed" petitioned to say they either wanted the FTTC service or didn't mind their slow service becoming slower as a consequence of FTTC for the households who did want it (the overwhelming majority)...
Logged

Weaver

  • Addicted Kitizen
  • *****
  • Posts: 7728
  • Retd sw dev; A&A; 4 7km ADSL2; IPv6; Firebrick
Re: New cabs and FTTP
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2018, 11:56:26 AM »

Well, in that case we shall have to force Openreach to get on with it. And abolish OfCon while we're at it.
Logged

j0hn

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 2610
Re: New cabs and FTTP
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2018, 02:18:11 PM »

There are very good reasons why they can't connect up properties on the "wrong side" of the cabinet in certain situations.

Power levels for cabinets are carefully calculated so as not to kill the ADSL signal and while you say everyone was happy for their line to be "harmed" the next occupant who buys their property may not.

This could be particularly bad where 2 FTTC cabinets coverage areas meet. If you randomly moved a few of the lines from 1 PCP to the other then the varying power levels can cause crosstalk havoc.
Logged
Plusnet FTTC 80/20 -  ECI now Huawei cab
retx low @ 3dB target SNRM
Zyxel VMG1312-B10A bridged with 1508 MTU + Asus RT-AC68U running Asuswrt-Merlin
 

anything