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Author Topic: Openreach to Scale Back G.fast Broadband Rollout Focus on FTTP  (Read 1475 times)

kitz

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Re: Openreach to Scale Back G.fast Broadband Rollout Focus on FTTP
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2018, 01:10:54 PM »

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Openreach should have rolled out 100% Huawei cabinets

It is so easy to say that now with the benefit of hindsight. :(   You do know that ECI were the first manufacturers to make a DSLAM capable of system based vectoring?
Back in 2012 when Openreach were already busy installing the M41's (which had been ordered a year or so previously) who had actually heard of system based vectoring? 

G.993.5 was a relatively new invention and previously only worked at line card level. It was complex and wasted ports on the DSLAMS - so vectoring wasn't really a viable option until ECI manufactured the worlds very first Vectored DSLAMs in 2012.

Openreach were not the only SP caught out by the advances in a new technology both Germany and France also ordered M41s - which at the time were actually the preferred DSLAM due to its small footprint and capable of serving more lines

There's an article here about Australias's NBN rollout of FTTC (which was after Openreach's) which states

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at the time of the initial planning for NBN technologies such as DOCSIS 3.1, VDSL2 Vectoring and G.fast did not exist (except perhaps on paper and in the lab).

So tell me how in 2010/2011 when Openreach were ordering hundreds of M41s they were supposed to have a crystal ball that none of the other SPs had either :/

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The problem with the M41's is there is insufficient space on the backplane to install a vectoring unit.
Would a simpler solution be to swap out the M41s with V41s?  Same footprint, same linecards.   I believe thats what Dueche Telecom did with some of their M41s.
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KIAB

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Re: Openreach to Scale Back G.fast Broadband Rollout Focus on FTTP
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2018, 01:14:32 PM »

Well this wasn't entirely unexpected imho.

Something must have happened for all those G.fast pods attached to cabinets up and down the country, all showing available and suddenly all disappearing from the checker.

Still not working,well mine isn't, was installed July/August last year. :D
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kitz

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Re: Openreach to Scale Back G.fast Broadband Rollout Focus on FTTP
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2018, 01:32:27 PM »

The fact they would need removing/replacing for a Profile 35b rollout, probably a big part.

Barely scraping 100Mb? I think you need to look up profile 35b.

Thanks for that image J0hn.  Whilst you don't get the massive speed improvements at 100m, like you say Vplus would be more beneficial for far more premises.

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re0

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Re: Openreach to Scale Back G.fast Broadband Rollout Focus on FTTP
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2018, 01:43:50 PM »

VPLUS is not a Huawei technology (SuperVector is) but the range and performance is similar and both can co-exist with 17a. SuperVector is said to be effective until around 700 meters to supply 100 Mbps, but beyond that point is is typically not able to supply 100 Mbps downstream. Going by distance statistics from thinkbroadband (https://www.thinkbroadband.com/how-broadband-works), SuperVector could supply 100+ Mbps to almost 90% of premises (probably anywhere between 70-90% depending on line conditions, material and gauge). 200+ Mbps should be possible within 500 meters.
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j0hn

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Re: Openreach to Scale Back G.fast Broadband Rollout Focus on FTTP
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2018, 02:05:23 PM »

I deliberately didn't mention Vplus, or Supervector for that matter.
I just couldn't find a graph that says profile 35b so the VPlus 1 was good enough.
VPlus and Supervector are just marketing dribble though.
They both use profile 35b, and are both compatible with 17a.
Wether they work alongside each other I have no idea but it's just marketing dribble either way.
I've never seen vectoring across multiple DSLAM's so between vendors it's highly unlikely
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 02:32:48 PM by j0hn »
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re0

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Re: Openreach to Scale Back G.fast Broadband Rollout Focus on FTTP
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2018, 02:51:44 PM »

I deliberately didn't mention Vplus, or Supervector for that matter.
I just couldn't find a graph that says profile 35b so the VPlus 1 was good enough.
I absolutely understood that and appreciate that the similarities between them do not detract from the effectiveness of vectored 35b.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 02:58:58 PM by re0 »
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ejs

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Re: Openreach to Scale Back G.fast Broadband Rollout Focus on FTTP
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2018, 03:47:34 PM »

The fact they would need removing/replacing for a Profile 35b rollout, probably a big part.

Which would have been more work?
1. Upgrade the Huawei cabinets and replace the ECI cabinets.
2. Install G.fast pods everywhere.

Barely scraping 100Mb? I think you need to look up profile 35b.

This was referring to the wonders of getting 100Mb out at 700m, not for the people right next to their cabinets.



Of course, if you take a graph from a G.fast vendor, and got rid of the VDSL2 so that G.fast could use the whole frequency range upwards of 2.2 MHz, things look a little different:

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j0hn

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Re: Openreach to Scale Back G.fast Broadband Rollout Focus on FTTP
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2018, 04:03:41 PM »

Of course they look different but that's not how it's being deployed.

I wasn't arguing 1 was more or less work than the other.
I was pointing out the benefits.

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This was referring to the wonders of getting 100Mb out at 700m, not for the people right next to their cabinets.

I'm sure everyone at 700m would be happier with 35b than G.Fast though. I don't think you would hear any of them complaining at 100Mb.

The point of G.Fast was supposed to be that it was taking fibre deeper in to the network. I was all for that.
A G.Farce deployment from the cabinet is useless, idiotic, and I'm not surprised in the slightest they are back tracking on those plans already.
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ejs

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Re: Openreach to Scale Back G.fast Broadband Rollout Focus on FTTP
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2018, 04:20:52 PM »

but surely the work associated with replacing a cabinet and its hardware would take more man hours, scheduled works (pathways/near roads) and more materials? And you've got distruption for the EUs from replacing the cabinet.

And what did fitting all those G.fast pods involve?

You'd still have some disruption for the EUs even if you're only replacing all the line cards and vectoring engine in a cabinet. I thought someone said some of the older Huawei cabinets would actually need more extensive upgrading to support vectoring.
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ejs

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Re: Openreach to Scale Back G.fast Broadband Rollout Focus on FTTP
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2018, 04:23:02 PM »

I don't think you would hear any of them complaining at 100Mb.

Now this I am completely sure cannot be correct. They'd be some people complaining. There are enough people who complain about getting a couple of Mb short of the full 80Mb!  :P
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gt94sss2

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Re: Openreach to Scale Back G.fast Broadband Rollout Focus on FTTP
« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2018, 04:37:27 PM »

Rolling out 35b would have been no quicker than rolling out g.fast - rollouts in places like Germany are years behind schedule.

g.fast actually makes more sense to deploy and is easier to rollout deeper into the network (as was the original plan). Plus the fact, that its still being developed (longer range, faster speeds, more frequencies) - thats why many more telco's have opted for it instead of 35b.

It won't have anything to do with the fact that some FTTC DSLAMS are ECI and others are not - and replacing the ECI ones is more complex then just replacing the DSLAMS - other kit would need to be replaced too. Finally, there are very good reasons why BT always chooses more than one supplier for its kit.
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re0

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Re: Openreach to Scale Back G.fast Broadband Rollout Focus on FTTP
« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2018, 05:05:53 PM »

Now this I am completely sure cannot be correct. They'd be some people complaining. There are enough people who complain about getting a couple of Mb short of the full 80Mb!  :P
There's always one. ::)
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Bowdon

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Re: Openreach to Scale Back G.fast Broadband Rollout Focus on FTTP
« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2018, 06:24:11 PM »

g.fast actually makes more sense to deploy and is easier to rollout deeper into the network (as was the original plan).

That is the key line.

If it had been rolled out as originally planned then I think the buy rate would be higher, and the cable maintance would have been lower. At the moment OR have the worst of both worlds.

G.fast should have been used in conjunction with full fibre as was originally planned and then it would have been a genuine step forward. At the moment it looks to me like it is more a tick box exercise.

Apart from saying X amount of people can get 100Mb speed doesn't mean X amount of people will actually buy it.
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re0

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Re: Openreach to Scale Back G.fast Broadband Rollout Focus on FTTP
« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2018, 06:34:28 PM »

G.fast was always intended to be rolled out like so - like from a DPs to cover premises that were typically no further than a couple hundred meters away at most. Or perhaps even in FTTB scenarios where apartments are involved.
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