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Author Topic: Maximum Attenuation Rate (dB) has dropped due to crosstalk  (Read 1864 times)

adslmax

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  • Posts: 1241
Maximum Attenuation Rate (dB) has dropped due to crosstalk
« on: August 04, 2018, 02:44:29 AM »

Since my FTTC was first activated February 2014 with Maximum Attenuation Rate (dB) at 108092k has now dropped to 79400k for the first after DLM has changed my sync rate from 79999k to 78515k. As it appear the cabinet is now in crosstalk :( BT Bras IP Profile also dropped to 75.92 Mbps from 77.35 Mbps but my throughput speed also drop to 72 Meg from 75 Meg :(

Code: [Select]
Last Remote Defect Indicator/DLM resync: 1st February 2018 at 1:45pm

Downstream   Upstream
Line attenuation (dB):     11.3      0.0
Signal attenuation (dB):   Not available on VDSL2     
Attenuation rate (kbps):   82489      27617
Connection speed (kbps):   79999      19999
SNR margin (dB):           6.7      15.1
Power (dBm):               12.4      -1.3
Interleave depth:          8      1
INP:                       48.00      0
G.INP:                     Enabled      Not Enabled

1st Remote Defect Indicator/DLM resync: 4th August 2018 at 1:15am (after 184 days stable)

Downstream   Upstream
Line attenuation (dB):     11.9      0.0
Signal attenuation (dB):   Not available on VDSL2     
Attenuation rate (kbps):   79400      27151
Connection speed (kbps):   78515      19999
SNR margin (dB):           6.4      15.0
Power (dBm):               12.4      0.6
Interleave depth:          8      1
INP:                       49.00      0
G.INP:                     Enabled      Not Enabled

I think DLM will now working it out for target SNR 3dB to get the line back up to 79999k as possible.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2018, 02:48:48 AM by adslmax »
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ejs

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Re: Maximum Attenuation Rate (dB) has dropped due to crosstalk
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2018, 05:22:26 AM »

I don't think it's the DLM that was responsible for reducing your speed a little.

The stats you posted on the Plusnet forums yesterday showed a DSL uptime of 2 days.
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adslmax

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Re: Maximum Attenuation Rate (dB) has dropped due to crosstalk
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2018, 05:44:34 AM »

I just noticed a change that might reduced sync rate below

Code: [Select]
Before: Line attenuation (dB):     11.3
Code: [Select]
Now: Line attenuation (dB):     11.9
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adslmax

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  • Posts: 1241
Re: Maximum Attenuation Rate (dB) has dropped due to crosstalk
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2018, 05:46:44 AM »

I don't think it's the DLM that was responsible for reducing your speed a little.

The stats you posted on the Plusnet forums yesterday showed a DSL uptime of 2 days.

Incorrect, it was DSL uptime 29 days cos I reset resync count on the modem. Also system uptime of 240 days.
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ejs

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Re: Maximum Attenuation Rate (dB) has dropped due to crosstalk
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2018, 06:04:46 AM »

Well whatever, you've still got a very good speed, better than a lot of other people.
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adslmax

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Re: Maximum Attenuation Rate (dB) has dropped due to crosstalk
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2018, 03:54:04 PM »

Do u reckon DLM will try target snr 3dB?? Been waiting for DLM to act as nothing happen for 2 days now with these stats below:

Max:    Upstream rate = 27310 Kbps, Downstream rate = 79246 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 78461 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        6.4             14.9
Attn(dB):        11.9            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        12.4            0.9
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re0

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Re: Maximum Attenuation Rate (dB) has dropped due to crosstalk
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2018, 04:17:52 PM »

I think it should be pointed out that the INP level increased on 4th August.
Last Remote Defect Indicator/DLM resync: 1st February 2018 at 1:45pm
Code: [Select]
INP:                       48.00      0

1st Remote Defect Indicator/DLM resync: 4th August 2018 at 1:15am (after 184 days stable)
Code: [Select]
INP:                       49.00      0

Not like that should be the reason for the decrease in sync. Perhaps conditions have changed which have caused a lower synchronisation speed. Or maybe some additional parameters have changed (such as redunant bits). Either way, the DLM has found it necessary to make the modifications and adjust the INP. A comparison of two full sets of stats from before and after would reveal changes.

It's a good enough speed and well within the range of acceptable speeds for your distance. Surely, it would be more detrimental to your throughput if you had a profile under 6 dB anyway? I am pretty sure you need high retransmission (retx high) with G.INP to have a lower SNR, but that higher retransmission also takes a decent chunk of the IP profile.
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adslmax

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Re: Maximum Attenuation Rate (dB) has dropped due to crosstalk
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2018, 04:22:02 PM »

Increase from 48 to 49 INP is make no difference in sync rate shouldn't affect it isn't it? I don't know why DLM has decided INP need to be increase to 49?

Old Stats:

Downstream   Upstream
Line attenuation (dB):     11.3      0.0
Signal attenuation (dB):   Not available on VDSL2     
Attenuation rate (kbps):   82489      27617
Connection speed (kbps):   79999      19999
SNR margin (dB):           6.7      15.1
Power (dBm):               12.4      -1.3
Interleave depth:          8      1
INP:                       48.00      0
G.INP:                     Enabled      Not Enabled

New stats:

Downstream   Upstream
Line attenuation (dB):     11.9      0.0
Signal attenuation (dB):   Not available on VDSL2     
Attenuation rate (kbps):   79191      27652
Connection speed (kbps):   78461      19999
SNR margin (dB):           6.4      15.1
Power (dBm):               12.4      0.9
Interleave depth:          8      1
INP:                       49.00      0
G.INP:                     Enabled      Not Enabled
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re0

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Re: Maximum Attenuation Rate (dB) has dropped due to crosstalk
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2018, 04:24:44 PM »

Full stats being:
Code: [Select]
adsl info --statsWhat you've posted is a very narrow slice of the stats.
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adslmax

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  • Posts: 1241
Re: Maximum Attenuation Rate (dB) has dropped due to crosstalk
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2018, 04:26:03 PM »

Code: [Select]
adsl info --stats
adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 27306 Kbps, Downstream rate = 79226 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 78461 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        6.4             14.9
Attn(dB):        11.9            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        12.4            0.9

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           -6              26
B:              243             237
M:              1               1
T:              0               42
R:              10              16
S:              0.0990          0.3781
L:              20520           5374
D:              8               1
I:              254             127
N:              254             254
Q:              8               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                63              0
TxQueue:                21              0
G.INP Framing:          18              0
G.INP lookback:         21              0
RRC bits:               0               24
                        Bearer 1
MSGc:           186             -6
B:              0               0
M:              2               0
T:              2               0
R:              16              0
S:              5.3333          0.0000
L:              48              0
D:              3               0
I:              32              0
N:              32              0
Q:              0               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                0               0
TxQueue:                0               0
G.INP Framing:          0               0
G.INP lookback:         0               0
RRC bits:               0               0

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            0               3663337
OHFErr:         0               157
RS:             3039306584              45770
RSCorr:         4795            450
RSUnCorr:       0               0
                        Bearer 1
OHF:            11348171                0
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             136177307               0
RSCorr:         26              0
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:         120886          0
rtx_c:          293             0
rtx_uc:         0               0

                        G.INP Counters
LEFTRS:         1               0
minEFTR:        78462           0
errFreeBits:    218187141               0

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    1733864256              0
Data Cells:     222854628               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

                        Bearer 1
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    0               0
Data Cells:     0               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             0               143
SES:            0               0
UAS:            26              26
AS:             182312

                        Bearer 0
INP:            49.00           0.00
INPRein:        0.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            3.98
OR:             0.01            64.22
AgR:            78541.70        20063.54

                        Bearer 1
INP:            4.00            0.00
INPRein:        4.00            0.00
delay:          3               0
PER:            16.06           0.01
OR:             95.62           0.01
AgR:            95.62   0.01

Bitswap:        3/3             14/14

Total time = 2 days 2 hours 38 min 58 sec
FEC:            4795            450
CRC:            0               157
ES:             0               143
SES:            0               0
UAS:            26              26
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 15 minutes time = 8 min 58 sec
FEC:            8               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            6               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 1 day time = 2 hours 38 min 58 sec
FEC:            65              7
CRC:            0               7
ES:             0               6
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:            2987            195
CRC:            0               65
ES:             0               60
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Since Link time = 2 days 2 hours 38 min 31 sec
FEC:            4795            450
CRC:            0               157
ES:             0               143
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
 >

Code: [Select]
Line attenuation (dB)    U0 U1 U2 U3 U4 D1 D2 D3
08 Aug 2018 15:33:42 2.5 13.9 21.6 N/A N/A 7.1 16.8 27.7

Code: [Select]
Signal attenuation (dB) U0 U1 U2 U3 U4 D1 D2 D3
08 Aug 2018 15:33:42 2.5 13.2 20.8 N/A N/A 9.4 16.6 27.7

Code: [Select]
adsl info --vectoring
adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 27306 Kbps, Downstream rate = 79184 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 78461 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Vectoring state: 5
VCE MAC Address: 0:0:0:0:0:0
Total error samples Ethernet pkts sent: 0
Total error samples Ethernet pkts discarded: 0
Total error samples statuses sent: 0
Total error samples statuses discarded: 0
 >

Code: [Select]
Downstream Upstream
General
rtx_tx          120886          0               
rtx_c            293              0               
rtx_uc          0                0               
LEFTRS          1                0               
minEFTR          78446            0               
errFreeBits      218402600        0               
Bearer 0
RxQueue          63              0               
TxQueue          21              0               
G.INP Framing    18              0               
G.INP Lookback  21              0               
RRC Bits        0                24             
Interleave depth 8                1               
INP              49.00            0.00           
INPRein          0.00            0.00           
Delay            0                0               
Bearer 1
Interleave depth 3                0               
INP              4.00            0.00           
INPRein          4.00            0.00           
Delay            3                0     

Code: [Select]
Stats recorded 08 Aug 2018 16:31:41

DSLAM type / SW version: BDCM:0xa48c (164.140) / v0xa48c
Modem/router firmware:  AnnexA version - A2pv6F039g1.d24m
DSL mode:                VDSL2 Profile 17a
Status:                  Showtime
Uptime:                  2 days 2 hours 44 min 32 sec
Resyncs:                0 (since 08 Aug 2018 15:33:38)

Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB):  11.9 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): Not available on VDSL2
Connection speed (kbps): 78461 19999
SNR margin (dB):        6.4 14.9
Power (dBm):            12.4 0.9
Interleave depth:        8 1
INP:                    49.00 0
G.INP:                  Enabled Not enabled
Vectoring status:        5 (VECT_UNCONFIGURED)

RSCorr/RS (%):          0.0002 0.0117
RSUnCorr/RS (%):        0.0000 0.0000
ES/hour:                0 2.61
« Last Edit: August 08, 2018, 04:32:29 PM by adslmax »
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ejs

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  • Posts: 2060
Re: Maximum Attenuation Rate (dB) has dropped due to crosstalk
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2018, 06:03:26 PM »

I think it should be pointed out that the INP level increased on 4th August.

Not like that should be the reason for the decrease in sync. Perhaps conditions have changed which have caused a lower synchronisation speed. Or maybe some additional parameters have changed (such as redunant bits). Either way, the DLM has found it necessary to make the modifications and adjust the INP. A comparison of two full sets of stats from before and after would reveal changes.

The INP level has changed, but it was nothing to do with the DLM. It's the retransmission low profile with 6 dB target SNRM. The parameters of the retransmission low profile will include a minimum INP level, which will be the same value for everyone on the retransmission low profile. The exact INP level you end up with is not set by the DLM.

It should also be obvious that the difference between INP 48 and 49 is insignificant!
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Iain

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  • Posts: 64
Re: Maximum Attenuation Rate (dB) has dropped due to crosstalk
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2018, 07:29:34 PM »

When was the last time the router was rebooted?

It probably just needs a switch off switch on.
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adslmax

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  • Posts: 1241
Re: Maximum Attenuation Rate (dB) has dropped due to crosstalk
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2018, 09:53:00 PM »

When was the last time the router was rebooted?

It probably just needs a switch off switch on.

Just been switched off for 35 minutes and power on.

Code: [Select]
Stats recorded 08 Aug 2018 21:56:17

DSLAM type / SW version: BDCM:0xa48c (164.140) / v0xa48c
Modem/router firmware:  AnnexA version - A2pv6F039g1.d24m
DSL mode:                VDSL2 Profile 17a
Status:                  Showtime
Uptime:                  0 hour 26 min 7 sec
Resyncs:                0 (since 08 Aug 2018 21:41:14)

Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB):  11.9 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): Not available on VDSL2
Connection speed (kbps): 78083 19999
SNR margin (dB):        6.4 15.1
Power (dBm):            12.4 0.9
Interleave depth:        8 1
INP:                    49.00 0
G.INP:                  Enabled Not enabled
Vectoring status:        5 (VECT_UNCONFIGURED)

RSCorr/RS (%):          0.0000 0.0001
RSUnCorr/RS (%):        0.0000 0.0000
ES/hour:                0 0

Here is new FTTC Stats:

Code: [Select]
adsl info --stats
adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 27402 Kbps, Downstream rate = 78871 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 78083 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        6.4             15.1
Attn(dB):        11.9            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        12.4            0.9

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           -6              26
B:              243             237
M:              1               1
T:              0               42
R:              10              16
S:              0.0995          0.3781
L:              20421           5374
D:              8               1
I:              254             127
N:              254             254
Q:              8               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                63              0
TxQueue:                21              0
G.INP Framing:          18              0
G.INP lookback:         21              0
RRC bits:               0               24
                        Bearer 1
MSGc:           186             -6
B:              0               0
M:              2               0
T:              2               0
R:              16              0
S:              5.3333          0.0000
L:              48              0
D:              3               0
I:              32              0
N:              32              0
Q:              0               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                0               0
TxQueue:                0               0
G.INP Framing:          0               0
G.INP lookback:         0               0
RRC bits:               0               0

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            0               339476
OHFErr:         0               1
RS:             53897080                1366805
RSCorr:         0               2
RSUnCorr:       0               0
                        Bearer 1
OHF:            83859           0
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             1005572         0
RSCorr:         0               0
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:         120893          0
rtx_c:          0               0
rtx_uc:         0               0

                        G.INP Counters
LEFTRS:         0               0
minEFTR:        78087           0
errFreeBits:    1604276         0

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    202264077               0
Data Cells:     6250460         0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

                        Bearer 1
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    0               0
Data Cells:     0               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             0               1
SES:            0               0
UAS:            27              27
AS:             1347

                        Bearer 0
INP:            49.00           0.00
INPRein:        0.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            3.98
OR:             0.01            64.22
AgR:            78162.77        20063.54

                        Bearer 1
INP:            4.00            0.00
INPRein:        4.00            0.00
delay:          3               0
PER:            16.06           0.01
OR:             95.62           0.01
AgR:            95.62   0.01

Bitswap:        2/2             4/4

Total time = 22 min 54 sec
FEC:            0               2
CRC:            0               1
ES:             0               1
SES:            0               0
UAS:            27              27
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 15 minutes time = 7 min 54 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            0               2
CRC:            0               1
ES:             0               1
SES:            0               0
UAS:            27              27
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 1 day time = 22 min 54 sec
FEC:            0               2
CRC:            0               1
ES:             0               1
SES:            0               0
UAS:            27              27
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Since Link time = 22 min 27 sec
FEC:            0               2
CRC:            0               1
ES:             0               1
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
 >

Code: [Select]
1st Power on:
Max:    Upstream rate = 27617 Kbps, Downstream rate = 82489 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 79999 Kbps

2nd Power on:
Max:    Upstream rate = 27306 Kbps, Downstream rate = 79184 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 78461 Kbps

3rd Power on:
Max:    Upstream rate = 27402 Kbps, Downstream rate = 78871 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 78083 Kbps

The max rate and sync rate kept dropped every time I switch off and leave it off for 35 minutes and power it up as it won't let me get the higher sync rate again :( It's appear the cabinet is now fill up! :(

I have to wait for DLM to kick in SNR 3dB to get my sync rate back to 79999k hopefully.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2018, 10:04:02 PM by adslmax »
Logged

re0

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 724
Re: Maximum Attenuation Rate (dB) has dropped due to crosstalk
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2018, 10:51:05 PM »

It should also be obvious that the difference between INP 48 and 49 is insignificant!
Sorry if I got it wrong! I think I got a bit mixed up with retransmission paramaters.

Just been switched off for 35 minutes and power on.

The max rate and sync rate kept dropped every time I switch off and leave it off for 35 minutes and power it up as it won't let me get the higher sync rate again :( It's appear the cabinet is now fill up! :(

I have to wait for DLM to kick in SNR 3dB to get my sync rate back to 79999k hopefully.
I would perhaps advise not getting obsessed with the stats! You may do more harm than good to your connection (and perhaps sanity).

You even made a topic yourself (https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,22086.msg379336.html#msg379336) about 3 dB SNR and how it impacts IP profile because of ReTX being HIGH. A lot of posts there point to 3, 4 and 5 dB profiles typically needing high ReTX, which as you noticed yourself is a detriment to your IP profile (and therefore throughput). You should continue getting slightly more throughput with your current synchronisation speeds than if you were on a lower dB profile as the increase in sync speed will most likely be offset by the overhead associated with high ReTX.

In short, don't worry about your sync not quite being 79999-80000 Kbps!

Edit: Fixed grammar.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2018, 10:55:23 PM by re0 »
Logged

adslmax

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1241
Re: Maximum Attenuation Rate (dB) has dropped due to crosstalk
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2018, 10:59:01 PM »


In short, don't worry about your sync not quite being 79999-80000 Kbps!


It seem odd that sync rate 79999Kbps get IP Profile of 77.35Mbps and throughput speed of 74Mbps
Now a sync rate 78083Kbps get IP Profile of 75.5Mbps and throughput speed of 74Mbps is still there. I ain't complaint then. :)
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