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Author Topic: Fourth line goes in next Wed  (Read 12276 times)

Black Sheep

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Re: Fourth line goes in next Wed
« Reply #75 on: August 28, 2018, 09:00:43 AM »

Good luck Black Sheep - I went through a TUPE exercise many years ago and it wasn't much fun.

On a lighter note, will you need to dye your fleece a new colour?
 :)

Ha ha ..... kitz is my fashion consultant where my fleece is concerned.  ;D ;D

Re: TUPE ... it appears it will be pretty much seamless and will be business as usual for the boots on the ground. We transfer out retaining all the same T&C's and pension rights.

For now.  ;)
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Weaver

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Re: Fourth line goes in next Wed
« Reply #76 on: August 28, 2018, 09:15:31 AM »

You are going to be ok then? Very best wishes my friend. Wish you were up here.

This will be the fourth visit is it? I've lost count. Depends on whether or not you count the mysterious fault in the other pair that came out of nowhere on the day just before the first engineer turned up.

I think it must be pretty difficult. When copper joints are mended, are gel crimps now put in? Forgive my total ignorance, apologies in advance.

Janet is really busy today which is a problem. I probably will not be able to sit up much today, I suspect that I will be confined to bed.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2018, 02:31:17 PM by Weaver »
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Black Sheep

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Re: Fourth line goes in next Wed
« Reply #77 on: August 28, 2018, 09:26:53 AM »

You are going to be ok then? Very best wishes my friend. Wish you were up here.

This will be the fourth visit is it? I've lost count. Depends on whether or not you count the mysterious fault in the other pair that came out of nowhere on the day just before the first engineer turned up.

I think it must be pretty difficult. When copper joints are mended, are gel crimps now out in? Forgive my total ignorance, apologies in advance.

Janet is really busy today which is a problem. I probably will not be able to sit up much today, I suspect that I will be confined to bed.

Thanks Weaver ..... I would hope it goes through OK.

Gel crimps are used in all instances of metallic UG joints ..... and as mooted above, a hefty D-side cable run in your geographical location is probably as testing as it gets for an OR engineer.
Local knowledge will play a major part, as our 'Network records' aren't always on the money.

Each job is different and without specifics of your task, I couldn't even begin to comment on what is required to be worked on ??.
Be slightly more comfortable in the knowledge that 'tails' (As this task will now begin to fall under), are heavily scrutinised with closure being put on them asap ..... in whatever form that may be.  :)

Have as good a day as you possibly can. 
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Weaver

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Re: Fourth line goes in next Wed
« Reply #78 on: August 28, 2018, 09:45:29 AM »

I would think then that in these cases a repair of a joint is an upgrade because now with gel crimps it won't ever corrode ?

We delved into the details of my copper in an earlier thread sine years back. I saw something in the regular BT line test results (the line is getting a quick test every hour) which if I understand it correctly says the line is 7.95km long which would be 600m longer than I thought. But what do I know.

Not much pain this morning, but unfortunately kept waking Janet up all night for more and more pills. So she is tired now.
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kitz

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Re: Fourth line goes in next Wed
« Reply #79 on: August 28, 2018, 09:53:41 AM »

Ha ha ..... kitz is my fashion consultant where my fleece is concerned.  ;D ;D

I do believe I did one in the exact Openreach purple a while ago in one of the Chat threads, but the consensus was the current colour was preferable. :D
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Black Sheep

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Re: Fourth line goes in next Wed
« Reply #80 on: August 28, 2018, 12:53:18 PM »

You did indeed ...... and I've been pulling the rams ever since with this beautiful purple number.  ;) :) :)
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Weaver

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Re: Fourth line goes in next Wed
« Reply #81 on: August 28, 2018, 01:53:46 PM »

An engineer was doing something down in Broadford near or at the exchange this morning, told AA it was all good. It wasn't. It is still 46k upstream. That is not remotely acceptable, in fact it is about 10% of 'acceptable'. So now exactly in the same place as we were 6 days ago.

I've just forgotten now, how many engineers have we had? Previous lines were done in an hour or so, with the one visit. Other folks in the village are going to want copper pairs, metallic path facilities.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2018, 02:11:57 PM by Weaver »
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johnson

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Re: Fourth line goes in next Wed
« Reply #82 on: August 28, 2018, 02:18:17 PM »

I've just forgotten now, how many engineers have we had? Previous lines were done in an hour or so, with the one visit. Other folks in the village are going to want copper pairs, metallic path facilities.

This kind of thing does make me wonder how openreach is profitable. I'm sure this case is a pretty far outlier, but have recently seen 3+ openreach visits (vans and people in caverns) in my area for what a nice OR bloke I spoke to was "a few houses connected to the wrong place". How much do all these visits cost in real ££, a fair amount I guess.

Is communication on jobs usually this difficult black sheep?
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Weaver

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Re: Fourth line goes in next Wed
« Reply #83 on: August 28, 2018, 02:18:54 PM »

Quote
BT Fault 3-762548671326 Right When Tested; End User Equipment;IP session terminates on RAS, check cust logon
Did all the connections, extensions and DSL filters meet the minimum standards ?: Yes
Did you complete the end customer premises equipment module ?: No
Did you disconnect any end customer wiring to resolve a problem ?: No
Did you complete the Base module ?: Yes
Have you conducted a sync test (modem light on) ?: Yes
What was the result of the initial pair quality test ?: Fail
Did you complete the end customer Premises Wiring Module ?: No
Have you successfully demonstrated connectivity to the NTE ?: Yes
Did you replace the NTE and why ?: Did not replace
BT
Today 11:25:46      Test line called (L)   cwcc@a
Today 11:24:22   Today 11:24:33   BT Fault 3-762548671326 Right When Tested; End User Equipment;IP session terminates on RAS, check cust logon
End customer contacted ?: 1602.01-I completed the ring ahead with the end customer JanetWard and progressed to their premises.
Did you get access to the end customer premises (inc access to internal comm / equipment rooms) ?: 749.01-Engineer got access to the internal comm / equipment rooms.
What did the end customer describe as the primary issue ?: 3762.01-End customer informed us there is no broadband connection.
Prior to any work where did you perform DeltaR / Autoprotective PQT ?: 3743.01-DeltaR / Autoprotective PQT test performed at NTE back plate.
Prior to any work, what was the leg difference in the DeltaR / Autoprotective PQT Test ?: 3763.02-The test failed due to resistance outside permissible range for broadband on 28/08/2018.
Did you complete TDR to locate the fault ?: 3748.01-TDR completed.
Where was the fault located ?: 743.02-Fault located in the D side underground network.
Have you completed all the base module activities listed below ?: 755.01-Base module checks completed.
What did you do to fix it ?: 745.11-Resolved issue in joint.
Did you replace the NTE ?: 750.03-NTE not replaced.
Where did you perform the final DeltaR / Autoprotective PQT ?: 3837.01-Final DeltaR / Autoprotective PQT performed at the NTE back plate.
What was the result of final DeltaR / Autoprotective PQT ?: 3838.04-The test failed due to resistance outside permissible range for broadband on 28/08/2018 .
Where did you perform the final PQT ?: 3835.05-Unable to / did not perform final PQT.
What was the result of the final PQT?: 3836.04-The line test did not initiate.
Where / how did you perform the final Eclipse / FastTest ?: 3417.03-Final FastTest completed.
What was the result of the final Eclipse / FastTest ?: 4000.03-Engineer was unable to complete an automated test. Engineer confirmed service restored on 28/08/2018 11:04:01.   BT
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Weaver

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Re: Fourth line goes in next Wed
« Reply #84 on: August 28, 2018, 02:41:23 PM »

The problem in my view, don't know what you think, is partially that AA is not talking directly to the engineer. Engineer escapes without demoing that the service is now working, and AA is not helping and supervising him.

However, there is more to it perhaps.

As I see it, sometimes small ISPs need to rent the services of an engineer. Other times they should be getting BT Wholesale to oversee and manage the entire job if the ISP is buying DSL from BT, which is the case here, as opposed to to just buying the use of a copper pair and that is all. Now here AA has ordered working good DSL from BT Wholesale yet AA is expected to oversee and fix the delivery of a service from BTW that AA has paid for and BTW is not doing anything, it is not ensuring that BTW’s customer AA gets the service that has been paid for.
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ktz392837

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Re: Fourth line goes in next Wed
« Reply #85 on: August 28, 2018, 03:08:00 PM »

I do not know if engineers have a time limit but when I had a problem (gradual decline eventually below handback threshold) the engineer worked on it solidly for quite some time even lifting manhole covers for a poled line (reroute perhaps) but end result was no phone call with an update, even worse broadband and he just disappeared and then a day or two later I realised I was without voice also.  I made my unhappiness known to ISP. 

Next engineer seemed to be even more experienced he had notes from past engineer (pity these were not shared with me as it would have at least calmed me down not sure even ISP had them - Plusnet). 

End result of this visit was fully restored service back at max sync - result.  He did have to ring engineers to take his other jobs he couldn't get too though which makes me believe either I would have been left again with no service or someone else would have had a engineer no show.

As an end user I think communication needs to improve both engineer and ISP to keep the customer informed.  If something isn't fixed or made worse tell us, apologise and tell us why and when it will be fixed. This would have made it so much better - at least for me.

I also think having a near 25Mb drop in service being classed as acceptable (very wide acceptable range even wider now) is not on.  I had previously raised a fault due to this months before and told everything was fine by an engineer - this was not the case as there was a damaged underground cable that was bypassed by the most recent engineer so clearly everything wasn't fine.  If I didn't go below the threshold I would still be having issues.

I think engineers have a tough time but some engineers are way better than others, if there are time constraints on engineers these need to be removed, let engineers have a bit more freedom, finally keep the user/customer better informed and perhaps believe them if they are saying something is wrong.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2018, 03:21:45 PM by ktz392837 »
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Weaver

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Re: Fourth line goes in next Wed
« Reply #86 on: August 28, 2018, 03:39:44 PM »

Something needs to be done about the current system, it just seems to be madness to me. If an engineer is stuck, there is I hope someone's that they can call for help?

And the oversight of engineers thing needs to be sorted out.

--
On good thing that I found: the slowness if the one line upstream is  not affecting the whole thing adversely. Last time the bad link halved the measured overall upstream. This time no such bad effect, so I can leave the new link up. Must have been packet loss before, from all of the crackles.

AA wants the modem left up and running for a while, and now that won't cause any problems so Janet can still get some work done.

This all started on the 8th of this month. A lot of the delay has been because Janet has been busy and can't just help on any day at all.

Any advice for me as to what I should do?
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Black Sheep

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Re: Fourth line goes in next Wed
« Reply #87 on: August 28, 2018, 07:32:41 PM »

This kind of thing does make me wonder how openreach is profitable. I'm sure this case is a pretty far outlier, but have recently seen 3+ openreach visits (vans and people in caverns) in my area for what a nice OR bloke I spoke to was "a few houses connected to the wrong place". How much do all these visits cost in real ££, a fair amount I guess.

Is communication on jobs usually this difficult black sheep?

Not a question I can answer I'm afraid johnson, as I don't have vision of costings in my role as a customer facing engineer.

I suppose it will be like many blue-chip companies in as much as they may have to take a hit on one task, but the other ninety-nine tasks prove to be profitable ??

Regarding communication on tasks ..... again, I would have to quote the 'percentages game' to generalise what we see.
In most cases most of the info required will be visible to us on the task ..... however, when something akin to Weavers task occurs, a lot of the notes may be missing from our screens but a call to our 'Task fluidity' people will reveal exactly what has, or hasn't, gone on.  :) 



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kitz

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Re: Fourth line goes in next Wed
« Reply #88 on: August 28, 2018, 08:08:44 PM »

The problem in my view, don't know what you think, is partially that AA is not talking directly to the engineer. Engineer escapes without demoing that the service is now working, and AA is not helping and supervising him.

Several years ago (3/4?) Openreach put a proposal that they would be able to directly communicate with the EU.  A couple of the large (LLU) put the blocks on this, thus any plans were scrapped.

The LLU ISPs have more direct communication with Openreach, whereas the likes of AAISP and even BTr have to go through BTw.    I still think splitting Openreach off was a mistake and they should have instead split off Retail.   
There is/was a lot of overlap between Openreach and BTw,  In my mind it would have been better to leave all the network and plant under one organisation.     That way the ISP's could purchase exactly what product(s) they need from one company  (eg purchase just PSTN & DSL OR purchase PSTN, DSL & Backhaul).  This would also have made all ISPs more equal irregardless if they were GEA or WBC customers.
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johnson

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Re: Fourth line goes in next Wed
« Reply #89 on: August 28, 2018, 08:15:56 PM »

Not a question I can answer I'm afraid johnson, as I don't have vision of costings in my role as a customer facing engineer.

I suppose it will be like many blue-chip companies in as much as they may have to take a hit on one task, but the other ninety-nine tasks prove to be profitable ??

Sounds logical, thanks for the response  :)

Lets hope the info for Weaver line gets shared in the end and things get sorted.
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