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Author Topic: ECI FTTC cab and choice of modems (again)  (Read 634 times)

Weaver

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ECI FTTC cab and choice of modems (again)
« on: August 03, 2018, 04:37:57 PM »

Has anyone who has FTTC with an ECI DSLAM ever done a back-to-back well-controlled speed contest between various types of modems particularly Lantiq vs Broadcom-based ones ?

I would think this has surely been done. Also the wider subject of CPE modem vs DSLAM matching, not just in FTTC but in general, has been brought up fairly often, with differing opinions if I remember correct?

I could however do with a recap.

Also is there a link between infineon lantiq intel on the one hand and ECI in the other - I don't quite understand and have got confused with the names of the companies concerned?
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Ixel

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Re: ECI FTTC cab and choice of modems (again)
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2018, 04:49:49 PM »

I haven't done an actual speed test comparison, but I've noted that for some lines the sync rate is pretty much unchanged whether Lantiq or Broadcom while some other lines can sometimes find one of the chipsets has a higher sync rate than the other. It's also worth noting that the Lantiq/Infineon chipset applies 'R' (reed solomon coding) of 16 on the downstream on fastpath while Broadcom doesn't do so (R: 0), at least this is the case on ECI DSLAM's on VDSL2, which means a light amount of error correction is applied by the Infineon/Lantiq chipset. The other comparison I've observed is that I tend to get a slightly lower latency with Lantiq/Infineon compared to Broadcom (usually two to a few milliseconds lower).
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Weaver

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Re: ECI FTTC cab and choice of modems (again)
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2018, 05:00:45 PM »

A challenge for someone then. Would be interested in the straight sync rates and SNRMs and all the other data. The test would need to be checked to make sure changes are not just due to resyncching anyway, or due to invoking the Wrath of DLM.
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ktz392837

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Re: ECI FTTC cab and choice of modems (again)
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2018, 05:55:45 PM »

Not well controlled but may be helpful.  I am still using my Zyxel 8324-B10A it has far less ES. 

I wonder if we will ever get ginp or 3db at this point I wish they would consider just 3db if ginp is dead. 

If I didn't fear DLM my results would be different now as I sync higher due to BT fixing my line after it went below handback threshold.

https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=19220.0
« Last Edit: August 03, 2018, 06:02:22 PM by ktz392837 »
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GaryW

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Re: ECI FTTC cab and choice of modems (again)
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2018, 06:01:58 PM »

It seems to very dependent on the individual line.

My ECI line is long, overhead, rural...and banded at 15000K downstream with low-interleaving.  (It used to be banded at 11400, but after a concerted effort to remove EMI sources it went up to 13096 and then 15000...but has been stuck there ever since as I've never had a long enough run of "green" days at 15000).

Broadcom modems (Billion and Zyxel) will hit the 15000 limit whenever they're resynced, and report a line attenuation of around 28 dB.  Lantiq modems (HH5a and Draytek) won't get anywhere near that at default SNRM - on a very good day they used to sync at 11400-ish, but more recently around 10700 and report attenuation of 33dB.  Looking at the bitloading, the Lantiq modems load far fewer bits at higher tones, consistent with the reported attenuation.  Also, the Lantiqs have the advantage of being "allowed" to use all tones from 33 up to the point where there's insufficient SNR to load any more bits.  The Broadcoms on the other hand are never allowed to use tones 33-66, and stop at around 755-789 (varies over time) even though the plots suggest that bits could be loaded right up to the top of D1 (i.e. tone 857).  I've no idea why this is the case - my guess is the DSLAM is deciding not to allow the modem to use these tones because it doesn't need to in order to hit the banded speed at target SNRM - maybe one day I'll get enough "green" days at 15000 for the banding to be raised so I can see what happens then!

Tweaking the SNRM on the Draytek can get the sync up to a little over 14000, but error rates go through the roof.

Upstream, Broadcom modems never sync at much more than 500 (yep, that's 500) whereas the Lantiqs will always sync a little over 600.
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hushcoden

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Re: ECI FTTC cab and choice of modems (again)
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2018, 06:11:29 PM »

I am on an ECI cab and I used to use a VMG1312-B10A and now I am happily using a Vigor 2760...

Here the stats for when I used the ZyXEL:
Code: [Select]
xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    1
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 22660 Kbps, Downstream rate = 77933 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 9995 Kbps, Downstream rate = 39994 Kbps

Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        14.5            15.9
Attn(dB):        14.9            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        1.2             1.2

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           18              219
B:              31              235
M:              1               1
T:              64              7
R:              10              16
S:              0.0255          0.7508
L:              13200           2717
D:              1283            1
I:              42              255
N:              42              255

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            1564245243              1081372
OHFErr:         1792            13
RS:             3669564313              937110
RSCorr:         13807236                156
RSUnCorr:       6787            0

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            982             0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    3079202053              0
Data Cells:     1649028873              0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             5136            14
SES:            18              0
UAS:            70              60
AS:             3837992

                        Bearer 0
INP:            3.50            0.00
INPRein:        0.00            0.00
delay:          8               0
PER:            2.45            11.87
OR:             78.26           151.62
AgR:            40072.04        10146.45

Bitswap:        291472/292352           4/4

Total time = 47 days 21 hours 16 min 56 sec
FEC:            13807236                156
CRC:            1792            13
ES:             5136            14
SES:            18              0
UAS:            70              60
LOS:            1               0
LOF:            7               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 15 minutes time = 1 min 56 sec
FEC:            181             0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            3325            0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 1 day time = 21 hours 16 min 56 sec
FEC:            331423          6
CRC:            36              1
ES:             16              1
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:            257067          5
CRC:            5               1
ES:             3               1
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Since Link time = 44 days 10 hours 6 min 31 sec
FEC:            13807236                156
CRC:            1792            13
ES:             893             13
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
NTR: mipsCntAtNtr=0 ncoCntAtNtr=0

and for the DrayTek
Code: [Select]
DrayTek> vdsl status
  ---------------------- ATU-R Info (hw: annex A, f/w: annex A/B/C) -----------
   Running Mode            :      17A       State                : SHOWTIME
   DS Actual Rate          : 39993000 bps   US Actual Rate       :  9995000 bps
   DS Attainable Rate      : 77572392 bps   US Attainable Rate   : 21967959 bps
   DS Path Mode            :        Fast    US Path Mode         :        Fast
   DS Interleave Depth     :        1       US Interleave Depth  :        1
   NE Current Attenuation  :       13 dB    Cur SNR Margin       :       17  dB
   DS actual PSD           :     1. 3 dB    US actual PSD        :     1. 5  dB
   NE CRC Count            :     1070       FE CRC Count         :        0
   NE ES Count             :      743       FE  ES Count         :        0
   Xdsl Reset Times        :        0       Xdsl Link  Times     :        3
   ITU Version[0]          : 00000000       ITU Version[1]       : 00000000
   VDSL Firmware Version   : 05-07-06-0D-01-07   [with Vectoring support]
   Power Management Mode   : DSL_G997_PMS_L0
   Test Mode               : DISABLE
  -------------------------------- ATU-C Info ---------------------------------
   Far Current Attenuation :       16 dB    Far SNR Margin       :       14  dB
   CO ITU Version[0]       : b5004946       CO ITU Version[1]    : 544eb206
   DSLAM CHIPSET VENDOR    : < IFTN >

With ZyXEL my downstream stayed always interleaved (INP 3 or 3.5 and delay 8ms) and now with the DrayTek it's fastpath... Sync it's pretty much the same though...
« Last Edit: August 03, 2018, 06:18:40 PM by hushcoden »
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Chrysalis

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Re: ECI FTTC cab and choice of modems (again)
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2018, 06:59:02 PM »

Well I havent any ECI modems that provide proper line stats so hard to tell.

My lantiq friztbox syncs lower than hauwei and on interleaving it seems to apply the sync speed overhead twice so its mega lower on interleaved profiles.  But at the same time error rates are noticeably better.
My ECI modem no idea as no stats since its a locked modem, other than I know that it syncs lower.
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burakkucat

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Re: ECI FTTC cab and choice of modems (again)
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2018, 07:35:45 PM »

Also is there a link between infineon lantiq intel on the one hand and ECI in the other - I don't quite understand and have got confused with the names of the companies concerned?

A quick synopsis . . . Once upon a time there was a company who produced various chip-sets using the Infineon name. Business being business, Infineon was swallowed up by/bought out by another company whose various chip-sets were marketed under the Lantiq name. The most recent event in the chain was Lantiq's acquisition by Intel.

And that is my understanding of the situation.  :-\
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Weaver

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Re: ECI FTTC cab and choice of modems (again)
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2018, 08:39:02 PM »

@Burakkucat - I noticed that there was a geographical link. Many thanks for de-confusing me.

And - ah, I see it now - Kitz wrote it up: ECI make the DSLAMs and use Intel aka Lantiq SoC components.
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burakkucat

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Re: ECI FTTC cab and choice of modems (again)
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2018, 09:39:29 PM »

If the correct incantation is uttered to an obliging modem then it is possible to display some information about the line-card chip-set and firmware.

With a circuit terminating on an ECI Hi-FOCuS M41 DSLAM the information returned would mention Infineon, whereas with a circuit terminating on a Huawei MA5603T or MA5616 DSLAM the information returned would mention Broadcom.

[Edited to correct a typo.]
« Last Edit: August 04, 2018, 04:29:19 PM by burakkucat »
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kitz

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Re: ECI FTTC cab and choice of modems (again)
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2018, 10:12:38 AM »

Quote
Has anyone who has FTTC with an ECI DSLAM ever done a back-to-back well-controlled speed contest between various types of modems particularly Lantiq vs Broadcom-based ones ?


Yes!  I'm on an ECI cab and the BCM chipsets have always worked better on my line.   Even when on ADSL the BCMs worked better for me. 


A challenge for someone then. Would be interested in the straight sync rates and SNRMs and all the other data. The test would need to be checked to make sure changes are not just due to resyncching anyway, or due to invoking the Wrath of DLM.


See main site.  I always do a controlled like test to ensure like for like comparisons when doing a modem review and I tended to use the HG612 as a base line comparison.   

In particular see the TD-W9980 review as it contains stats from a VRX-200 chipset which is the same as used in the ECI modem.   

Point to bear in mind is the HG612 contains a BCM6368.   I get even better results with the BCM63168 by up to another 7Mbps.




Sorry tried to c&P stats but struggling with arm & fingers today
« Last Edit: August 04, 2018, 10:16:25 AM by kitz »
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S.Stephenson

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Re: ECI FTTC cab and choice of modems (again)
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2018, 11:35:23 AM »

Just got a Vigor 2760 so I could mess with the SNR, set it to modem mode and it worked like a charm.

Sync was similar before adjustments but with the SNR tweak it's allot better.

It's very simple to do.
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