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Author Topic: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%  (Read 35551 times)

j0hn

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Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
« Reply #30 on: August 13, 2018, 02:00:38 PM »

Max your line is already Retransmission Low.
I don't think you can trick DLM in to lowering the SNRM target.

If DLM lowers your SNRM to 5dB and increases your sync to 79,999 it will move you to Retransmission High and you will get slower throughput than you do now.

If that happens post here and I will happily recommend a cap to try lower the line to Retransmission Low.
Until then you shouldn't worry about it or obsess over a couple Mb. You sync considerably higher than most already.

I've always suspected that Openreach's DLM takes FEC errors into consideration, as to whether it's worth removing traditional interleaving or not for example.

That's exactly my thoughts. My experience is it only uses FEC figures when deciding to remove interleaving or lower retx from high to low.
i don't believe DLM takes negative action for high FEC, but it may not make positive changes if FEC is working hard.


Quote from: kitz
PS did your rtx_uc figures change?

No change there either. The only noticeable change to any my figures while the line was capped was the FEC's which dropped significantly.
I had the exact same with sticky interleaving on my ECI cabinet. ES were under 100/day for months, well below ILQ green but interleaving would not budge.
Capping the line lowered FEC from circa 10,000/min to just under 1,000/hour and the line returned to fastpath.

I'm not convinced my line will hold retx low unfortunately.
Every single day I have 0 ES/LEFTERS with retx high but so far I've had 33 LEFTERS in the last 12 hours on retx low so it certainly seems makes a difference.
It's no doubt pushing my line which over achieves considerably.
24.6dB attenuation and 1022m long from my last GEA test I do not bad getting 45Mb.
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underzone

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Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
« Reply #31 on: August 13, 2018, 05:56:44 PM »

What was your stats before DLM act?

Sync 79999 on 3dB with INP=52 and INPREIN=1
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adslmax

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Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
« Reply #32 on: August 13, 2018, 06:17:47 PM »

Max your line is already Retransmission Low.
I don't think you can trick DLM in to lowering the SNRM target.

If DLM lowers your SNRM to 5dB and increases your sync to 79,999 it will move you to Retransmission High and you will get slower throughput than you do now.

If that happens post here and I will happily recommend a cap to try lower the line to Retransmission Low.
Until then you shouldn't worry about it or obsess over a couple Mb. You sync considerably higher than most already.


Thanks j0hn. Will let u know if my retransmission get higher, I doubt it will be for a while.
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j0hn

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Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
« Reply #33 on: August 13, 2018, 07:14:00 PM »

A small curiosity...
The other 3 lines posted with retx low all have something similar

Quote
   Bearer 0
INP:      47.00      0.00
INPRein:   0.00      0.00
delay:      0      0
PER:      0.00      6.81
OR:      0.01      34.04
AgR:      72467.34   18033.49

         Bearer 1
INP:      4.50      0.00
INPRein:   4.50      0.00
delay:      3      0
PER:      16.06      0.01
OR:      79.68      0.01
AgR:      79.68   0.01

Note the delay on Bearer 1

My line has...

Quote
Bearer 0

INP:            46.00           0.00
INPRein:        0.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            9.06
OR:             0.01            28.23
AgR:            45632.39        6789.77

                        Bearer 1

INP:            2.50            0.00
INPRein:        2.50            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            16.06           0.01
OR:             47.81           0.01
AgR:            47.81   0.01

Does anyone know the significance?
I understood Bearer 1 to only carry Retransmission messages.
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ejs

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Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
« Reply #34 on: August 13, 2018, 08:11:37 PM »

I understood Bearer 1 to only carry Retransmission messages.

No, it carries all the overhead messages, many of which will be unrelated to retransmission functions.
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bkehoe

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Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
« Reply #35 on: August 14, 2018, 04:55:57 PM »

Been synced a tad under 80MBit for months with a 4dB SNR target but RETX high (so coming from RETX Low at 6dB to a sub 6dB target hasn't really done anything for me overall)so just decided to cap my line at 65MBit today to see if I can get Re Tx low back again.

Already I can see that I've gone from about 5000 FEC/hour to about 15 so curious how long this takes.
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j0hn

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Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
« Reply #36 on: August 15, 2018, 01:25:02 PM »

What were your ES/LEFTERS like before?
Have any other figures dropped? (particularly rtx figures).
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Archetype486

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Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
« Reply #37 on: August 15, 2018, 01:59:44 PM »

I now wish I had posted my stats and finding when I got mine to work as it seems to be helping others.

Well at least the information is out there now.
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bkehoe

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Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
« Reply #38 on: August 15, 2018, 05:18:04 PM »

What were your ES/LEFTERS like before?
Have any other figures dropped? (particularly rtx figures).

Like 0-1ES per day on the downstream but quite a few on the upstream (~300 a day).
My stats with the cap;
Quote
       VDSL Port Details       Upstream         Downstream
               Line Rate:     20.063 Mbps       64.996 Mbps
    Actual Net Data Rate:     19.999 Mbps       64.997 Mbps
          Trellis Coding:         ON                ON
              SNR Margin:       15.2 dB            6.8 dB
            Actual Delay:          0 ms              0 ms
          Transmit Power:      - 2.1 dBm          13.2 dBm
           Receive Power:      -17.3 dBm           1.2 dBm
              Actual INP:        0.0 symbols      51.0 symbols
       Total Attenuation:        0.0 dB          12.1 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate:     23.581 Mbps       80.337 Mbps
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Hitman

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Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
« Reply #39 on: August 16, 2018, 06:10:49 PM »

Just got my result from doing this procedure on my DGA4132 5 days ago - capped at 15000/60000 and got my DSLstat email saying resync this morning, now InpRein is 0 from 1, results below.

Question: How are you guy's removing your cap, best via command line or a reboot? I don't want to upset the applecart.

Results
Before
Code: [Select]
Max:    Upstream rate = 23537 Kbps, Downstream rate = 73653 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 72240 Kbps
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        3.1             14.9
Attn(dB):        13.6            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        13.4            3.9

Bearer 0
INP:            54.00           0.00
INPRein:        1.00            0.00

                        Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:         454             0
rtx_c:          435             0
rtx_uc:         0               0

After
Code: [Select]
Max:    Upstream rate = 23223 Kbps, Downstream rate = 74270 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 14999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 60000 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        6.4             18.8
Attn(dB):        13.6            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        13.4            3.7

Bearer 0
INP:            48.00           0.00
INPRein:        0.00            0.00

                        Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:         32              0
rtx_c:          32              0
rtx_uc:         0               0
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j0hn

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Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
« Reply #40 on: August 16, 2018, 06:21:07 PM »

Did any of you who successfully forced retx low notice a considerable drop in any of the below figures?

ES or FEC
rtx_tx, rtx_uc or LEFTERS (from the G.INP tab on DslStats)

It would be good to try collaborate and try narrow down which parameters DLM is interested in for changing retx high/low.

Makes me really miss MDWS  :no:

edit:

Quote from: Hitman
Question: How are you guy's removing your cap, best via command line or a reboot? I don't want to upset the applecart.

I just applied a cap slightly higher than what I can sync at.

For me I set 48000 10000 100000
I usually sync about 45-46Mb but the 48Mb cap ensures I won't sync any higher if the DSLAM reboots and I reconnect before crosstalkers.

Having only a 3dB SNRM means less headroom for such events. If I connect higher than that my ES/LEFTERS increase considerably and DLM drops me to 4dB very quickly.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2018, 06:26:28 PM by j0hn »
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adslmax

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Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
« Reply #41 on: August 16, 2018, 06:24:21 PM »

Bring back MDWS please
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Hitman

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Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
« Reply #42 on: August 16, 2018, 06:52:12 PM »

Did any of you who successfully forced retx low notice a considerable drop in any of the below figures?

ES or FEC
rtx_tx, rtx_uc or LEFTERS (from the G.INP tab on DslStats)

It would be good to try collaborate and try narrow down which parameters DLM is interested in for changing retx high/low.

Makes me really miss MDWS  :no:

edit:

I just applied a cap slightly higher than what I can sync at.

For me I set 48000 10000 100000
I usually sync about 45-46Mb but the 48Mb cap ensures I won't sync any higher if the DSLAM reboots and I reconnect before crosstalkers.

Having only a 3dB SNRM means less headroom for such events. If I connect higher than that my ES/LEFTERS increase considerably and DLM drops me to 4dB very quickly.

Thanks John,

So would you say 20000/73000 would be ok for my line, although I would prefer just to remove any cap in place (thus a power down/remove VDSL cable/wait 30mins reconnect and power up would be the safest thing to do for this?).

I'll have a better indication of differences once I get the full sync back up, although LEFTERs/ES were 0 before and I doubt this will change, 0 now on current sync, some small amount on U/L.

Anyway my full stats before capping the line, i'll post my new stats after a good data population...

Code: [Select]
xdslctl info --stats
xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 23537 Kbps, Downstream rate = 73653 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 72240 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        3.1             14.9
Attn(dB):        13.6            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        13.4            3.9

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           -6              26
B:              243             237
M:              1               1
T:              0               42
R:              10              16
S:              0.1076          0.3781
L:              18893           5374
D:              8               1
I:              254             127
N:              254             254
Q:              8               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                80              0
TxQueue:                16              0
G.INP Framing:          18              0
G.INP lookback:         16              0
RRC bits:               0               24
                        Bearer 1
MSGc:           154             -6
B:              0               0
M:              2               0
T:              2               0
R:              16              0
S:              6.4000          0.0000
L:              40              0
D:              3               0
I:              32              0
N:              32              0
Q:              0               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                0               0
TxQueue:                0               0
G.INP Framing:          0               0
G.INP lookback:         0               0
RRC bits:               0               0

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            0               89486540
OHFErr:         0               176
RS:             272290056               3756773600
RSCorr:         116188          386
RSUnCorr:       0               0
                        Bearer 1
OHF:            22110941                0
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             221108794               0
RSCorr:         635             0
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:         454             0
rtx_c:          435             0
rtx_uc:         0               0

                        G.INP Counters
LEFTRS:         0               0
minEFTR:        72243           0
errFreeBits:    391382839               0

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    2094954691              0
Data Cells:     1032067411              0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

                        Bearer 1
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    0               0
Data Cells:     0               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             0               161
SES:            0               0
UAS:            28              28
AS:             355150

                        Bearer 0
INP:            54.00           0.00
INPRein:        1.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            3.98
OR:             0.01            64.22
AgR:            72314.24        20063.54

                        Bearer 1
INP:            4.50            0.00
INPRein:        4.50            0.00
delay:          3               0
PER:            16.06           0.01
OR:             79.68           0.01
AgR:            79.68   0.01

Bitswap:        57249/58428             280/280

Total time = 4 days 2 hours 39 min 38 sec
FEC:            116188          386
CRC:            0               176
ES:             0               161
SES:            0               0
UAS:            28              28
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           0
HostInitRetr:   0
FailedRetr:     0
Latest 15 minutes time = 9 min 38 sec
FEC:            112             0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           0
HostInitRetr:   0
FailedRetr:     0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            228             0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           N/A
HostInitRetr:   N/A
FailedRetr:     N/A
Latest 1 day time = 2 hours 39 min 38 sec
FEC:            2520            24
CRC:            0               3
ES:             0               3
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           0
HostInitRetr:   0
FailedRetr:     0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:            31565           51
CRC:            0               48
ES:             0               46
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           0
HostInitRetr:   0
FailedRetr:     0
Since Link time = 4 days 2 hours 39 min 9 sec
FEC:            116188          386
CRC:            0               176
ES:             0               161
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           0
HostInitRetr:   0
FailedRetr:     0
NTR: mipsCntAtNtr=0 ncoCntAtNtr=0
« Last Edit: August 16, 2018, 06:58:22 PM by Hitman »
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j0hn

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Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
« Reply #43 on: August 16, 2018, 07:06:16 PM »

80000 20000 100000 would effectively remove the cap.
Rebooting would also be fine though.

I'm interested in the changes in figures from before the cap and during the cap.
I want to try identify what figures DLM notices are lower that makes it try retx low.

Figures after the line has gone retx low won't help with that but will still add to the overall pool of data and would be appreciated.
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Hitman

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Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
« Reply #44 on: August 16, 2018, 07:17:37 PM »

80000 20000 100000 would effectively remove the cap.
Rebooting would also be fine though.

I'm interested in the changes in figures from before the cap and during the cap.
I want to try identify what figures DLM notices are lower that makes it try retx low.

Figures after the line has gone retx low won't help with that but will still add to the overall pool of data and would be appreciated.

Ok sure and thanks again, here's my capped data from a day ago /before the resync at 7.42am this morning, the rest /after resync will follow later.....

Code: [Select]
xdslctl info --stats
xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 23987 Kbps, Downstream rate = 71350 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 14999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 60000 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        5.6             18.6
Attn(dB):        13.6            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        13.4            4.1

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           -6              26
B:              122             237
M:              1               1
T:              0               35
R:              8               16
S:              0.0647          0.5038
L:              16186           4033
D:              8               1
I:              131             127
N:              131             254
Q:              8               0
V:              7               0
RxQueue:                135             0
TxQueue:                27              0
G.INP Framing:          18              0
G.INP lookback:         27              0
RRC bits:               0               24
                        Bearer 1
MSGc:           122             -6
B:              0               0
M:              2               0
T:              2               0
R:              16              0
S:              8.0000          0.0000
L:              32              0
D:              1               0
I:              32              0
N:              32              0
Q:              0               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                0               0
TxQueue:                0               0
G.INP Framing:          0               0
G.INP lookback:         0               0
RRC bits:               0               0

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            0               31185554
OHFErr:         0               88
RS:             4161248720              1090771296
RSCorr:         1916            25
RSUnCorr:       0               0
                        Bearer 1
OHF:            8555019         0
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             68439657                0
RSCorr:         89              0
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:         307             0
rtx_c:          307             0
rtx_uc:         0               0

                        G.INP Counters
LEFTRS:         0               0
minEFTR:        60005           0
errFreeBits:    402187887               0

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    2970613809              0
Data Cells:     353045901               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

                        Bearer 1
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    0               0
Data Cells:     0               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             0               223
SES:            0               0
UAS:            65              65
AS:             137413

                        Bearer 0
INP:            55.00           0.00
INPRein:        1.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            4.42
OR:             0.01            57.84
AgR:            60553.63        15056.99

                        Bearer 1
INP:            2.00            0.00
INPRein:        2.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            16.06           0.01
OR:             63.75           0.01
AgR:            63.75   0.01

Bitswap:        1080/1138               6/6

Total time = 4 days 12 hours 36 min 10 sec
FEC:            29742           2112
CRC:            0               233
ES:             0               223
SES:            0               0
UAS:            65              65
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           1
HostInitRetr:   1
FailedRetr:     0
Latest 15 minutes time = 6 min 10 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           0
HostInitRetr:   0
FailedRetr:     0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            1511            0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           N/A
HostInitRetr:   N/A
FailedRetr:     N/A
Latest 1 day time = 12 hours 36 min 10 sec
FEC:            1718            8
CRC:            0               33
ES:             0               33
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           0
HostInitRetr:   0
FailedRetr:     0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:            193             17
CRC:            0               54
ES:             0               54
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           0
HostInitRetr:   0
FailedRetr:     0
Since Link time = 1 days 14 hours 10 min 11 sec
FEC:            1916            25
CRC:            0               88
ES:             0               88
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           0
HostInitRetr:   0
FailedRetr:     0
NTR: mipsCntAtNtr=0 ncoCntAtNtr=0
Logged
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