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Author Topic: re-locating "master" socket  (Read 1255 times)

chenks

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re-locating "master" socket
« on: July 16, 2018, 12:35:37 PM »

so this weeks project is to move my poorly located master socket.
yes i know it's not something that openreach would approve of but i've done enough cabling in my time to be competent enough to do it without any issue.

this is what i currently have
a GPO box coming in from the window frame (been there for at least 30 years), many paint jobs on it.



from this box there is some old CW1308 (i presume/hope) cable running approx 207 inches / 18 feet / 5 meters to the other side of the room where an old British Telecom box is screwed to the skirting board (again about 25-30 years old).



the cable coming in from the right is from the GPO box.
there is a single phone connected to this box using the filter you can see.
there is then some more CW1308 cable coming out the master socket which then runs all the way up the wall (this socket is on the ground floor) up into the second floor, then continues up again into the loft. that cable then runs along the loft, back down into a bedroom and then along again into another room where it terminates at socket where the modem is plugged in (again using a filter).

this is clearly not ideal, so the plan is the cut all cable out of the equation and fit this below the GPO box with some new CW1308 i have sitting here.



i'll try and use a counter sunk back box otherwise it'll stick 6cm out from wall (not ideal), it'll be 3.5cm if the back box is counter sunk.
i'll then move the modem to where the new master socket is, and run ethernet from there up to where the rest of the comms equipment sits (which is upstairs).

i suspect the hardest bit is going to be opening the old GPO box to connect the new CW1308, due to all the paint.
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DaveC

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Re: re-locating "master" socket
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2018, 01:00:31 PM »

I would be tempted to go one step further and change how the drop wire enters my house.

Presumably it now comes through your window frame?  Is there scope for changing the entry point so it enters through the wall, directly into the back of a new master socket, without needing to extend the cable in any way?  Or alternatively (if your cable comes from a pole), you could place the master socket upstairs.

You can then use good quality cable (e.g. CAT5) to run extensions from that master socket to where you actually want to place your equipment.  If you use a VDSL faceplate on your master socket, you can use different pairs in a single CAT5 to carry the voice and data elements of the signal.

That also gives you a clean demarcation point with BT, allowing you bypass your internal cabling for testing.

I would recommend looking at some of the youtube videos by "MyMateVince" - he covers virtually all kinds of telephone/broadband cabing (but appears to have closed his related ebay shop).
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Ixel

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Re: re-locating "master" socket
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2018, 01:05:26 PM »

Good luck with it. Yes it's not the generally acceptable thing to do but there are people who do it and some engineers appear to sometimes sort of turn a blind eye to it even if it's obvious that you've moved the master socket (so long as the work you did isn't shoddy I guess).

If you end up joining some part of the cable then make sure you use good quality jelly crimps, preferably the same ones Openreach use so it's less obvious that you relocated the master socket. A good IDC tool is a must too, or alternatively if you don't have one then a screwdriver. If you had the newer type of master socket (NTE5c) then you wouldn't need an IDC tool.
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chenks

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Re: re-locating "master" socket
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2018, 01:11:38 PM »

I would be tempted to go one step further and change how the drop wire enters my house.

Presumably it now comes through your window frame?  Is there scope for changing the entry point so it enters through the wall, directly into the back of a new master socket, without needing to extend the cable in any way?  Or alternatively (if your cable comes from a pole), you could place the master socket upstairs.

it's always come in thru the window frame.
however, these houses recently (about 5-6 years ago) has external wall insulation installed, and thus the cable from the pole (which is in the back garden) hits the wall and is then, unfortunately due to idiot installers) is now behing the external insulation and rough-casting! yes you read that right, then drop cable was buried underneath it all.

so essentially what we were left with is the cable from the pole hitting the wall then it disappears under everything until you see it enter the house.

should anything ever go wrong BT will need to fit a new wire and they won't be able to get to it otherwise.

moving the modem downstairs really isn't an issue as we already have an ethernet cable running upstairs from where the new master socket location would be.
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chenks

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Re: re-locating "master" socket
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2018, 01:13:26 PM »

Good luck with it. Yes it's not the generally acceptable thing to do but there are people who do it and some engineers appear to sometimes sort of turn a blind eye to it even if it's obvious that you've moved the master socket (so long as the work you did isn't shoddy I guess).

If you end up joining some part of the cable then make sure you use good quality jelly crimps, preferably the same ones Openreach use so it's less obvious that you relocated the master socket. A good IDC tool is a must too, or alternatively if you don't have one then a screwdriver. If you had the newer type of master socket (NTE5c) then you wouldn't need an IDC tool.

shouldn't need crimps as my plan is to open the GPO box and disconnect the existint CW1308 and connect the new one to it (it's screw connectors in there).
and the mastet socket i'm fitting is the newer type with the required internal connections.
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johnson

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Re: re-locating "master" socket
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2018, 01:23:12 PM »

The pic you posted doesnt look like the rounded NTE5C that has the tool-less IDC clamp things, but I could be wrong.
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chenks

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Re: re-locating "master" socket
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2018, 01:25:13 PM »

The pic you posted doesnt look like the rounded NTE5C that has the tool-less IDC clamp things, but I could be wrong.

it's a MK3 which has the standard connectors.
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chenks

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Re: re-locating "master" socket
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2018, 01:26:16 PM »

here's what we were left with after the external work to the houses





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RealAleMadrid

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Re: re-locating "master" socket
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2018, 01:27:03 PM »

I believe BT now use gel crimps rather than screw terminals in junction boxes, if you can get it open you may find the screws are rather corroded so would not be a reliable connection method.
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johnson

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Re: re-locating "master" socket
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2018, 01:28:26 PM »

it's a MK3 which has the standard connectors.

So you will need an IDC tool or some deft screwdriver prodding.
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DaveC

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Re: re-locating "master" socket
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2018, 01:28:42 PM »

so essentially what we were left with is the cable from the pole hitting the wall then it disappears under everything until you see it enter the house.

I guess the upside is that the cable is hidden...

I used to have my modems located next to my master socket, but recently recabled to have a cat5 extension hard-wired from the master socket to my patch panel in the cupboard under the stairs where my comms/network equipment lives, and saw no change in the sync rates/attenuation.

So if I was you, I would test that before deciding on the final location for the modem - it's always neater to hide away the equpment.

I have a relatively strong VDSL signal though - max attainable is around 81/27.
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chenks

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Re: re-locating "master" socket
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2018, 01:33:07 PM »

i guess i have two options then once the socket is relocated.

1) move the modem to the socket (it would be hidden behind a unit so position wouldn't be an issue)
2) run ethernet from the master socket upstairs to where the modem currently is (would be around 10m length).

my current connection stats are

Max:    Upstream rate = 25631 Kbps, Downstream rate = 84468 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 80000 Kbps

so i don't expect any of this work to improve anything (it's already pretty strong), it's more just getting rid of all this stupid internal cabling.
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johnson

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Re: re-locating "master" socket
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2018, 01:35:50 PM »

Wow that crazy mess of cables up and down the house and you are still just limited by the BT cap.... I guess if you improve things it will help when/if you get g.fast.
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DaveC

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Re: re-locating "master" socket
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2018, 01:38:21 PM »

From those last photos, your house looks different to your neighbour's - it looks like there is some kind of junction box (the black tube), where the drop wire enters.  Have you had a peek inside there?

It looks like there would be enough slack on the drop wire to go straight through that wall, below the upstairs window.  You would then be able to cut out two junction boxes before your master socket (the external one, and the one on your window frame).

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chenks

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Re: re-locating "master" socket
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2018, 01:47:16 PM »

Wow that crazy mess of cables up and down the house and you are still just limited by the BT cap.... I guess if you improve things it will help when/if you get g.fast.

i'm lucky that the cab is about 40-50 feet away, and the pole in my back garden.
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