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Author Topic: St3's Migration to IDNet  (Read 1222 times)

St3

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Re: St3's Migration to IDNet
« Reply #30 on: July 08, 2018, 08:00:28 PM »

back to slow downs

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rongtw

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Re: St3's Migration to IDNet
« Reply #31 on: July 09, 2018, 07:13:27 AM »

not good have you contacted them ?
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kitz

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Re: St3's Migration to IDNet
« Reply #32 on: July 09, 2018, 12:14:57 PM »

very much so!
plusnet had some very bad congestion for a while until they rejigged their gateways.

Just a note on this, the congestion was occurring at the BTw WBMC - Shared MSILs and not on their Gateway host links.   The bandwidth on shared MSILs are out of Plusnet's control,  they resolved the issue by swapping over to WBMC - Dedicated which gives them a lot more control over bandwidth at the MSILs.    It took them a while to swap everything over bearing in mind they had to purchase MSILs at various locations throughout the UK.   I can say without doubt it was the BTw MSILs which caused the PN congestion problems a few years ago. **

I doubt ISP's the size of ID-Net, AAISP will be able to afford Dedicated WBMC.  I heard on the grapevine that AAISP may be considering using another 'LLU' SP to give them more options when it comes to backhaul availability but I'm not sure even if or when that will come to fruition.   

Also as Weaver mentioned there is premium which not all ISPs offer, but this should also give the EU priority at the AP on the MSILs.    Premium is something more commonly used with adsl though rather than vdsl.   I know PN used to offer premium for adsl but not sure if they do for fttc.  I used to have premium when on adsl because of BTw congestion in this area -  there were quite a few of us back then that paid about an extra fiver a month for it and it was definitely worth it on the older 20CN network..  but basically it gives the EU elevated priority on the BTw part of the network akin to the old 50:1 and 20:1 only its now called Elevated best effort.


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** afaik BTw MSIL congestion is now mostly fixed though may still occur from time to time.   Plusnet is now way too big to be on shared and I said years ago that they should have moved to dedicated.    All those PN customers coming off WBMC shared should in theory have freed up a shed load of bandwidth for other ISPs :D
« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 12:23:09 PM by kitz »
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St3

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Re: St3's Migration to IDNet
« Reply #33 on: July 09, 2018, 05:52:32 PM »

Before i say what idnet told me via e-mail read this taken from their website.

Quote
We guarantee no contention on our network, no throttling, no traffic shaping & no port blocking. No contention on our network is achieved by not oversubscribing our broadband services and ensuring that bandwidth investment exceeds customer demand. This means that we can guarantee the maximum throughput that your line can support at all times.


https://www.idnet.net/data_products/super-fast-broadband.php >>> Reasons To Choose IDNet

Idnet mailed me today to say it was contention im most likely to be getting at peak times and that openreach is supposed to monitor it and apply updates to prevent it. Idnet didn't offer any solution maybe because it only seams to happen on random days.

So website says one thing and they telling me another ??????

« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 06:05:22 PM by St3 »
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chenks

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Re: St3's Migration to IDNet
« Reply #34 on: July 09, 2018, 06:28:20 PM »

"We guarantee no contention on our network" - that's a rather foolish promise to make. no ISP can ever guarantee that.
however it does give you a valid way to break out of any contract you may have if you ever to get contention issues.
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St3

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Re: St3's Migration to IDNet
« Reply #35 on: July 09, 2018, 06:43:13 PM »

Im half way into my 1 month contract im going to see how things go if nothing picks up then ill be moving.

Saying that apart from contention idnet reply pretty quick to support tickets and their customer account's page is very well setup.
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kitz

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Re: St3's Migration to IDNet
« Reply #36 on: July 09, 2018, 11:01:01 PM »

I think they have 4 xDSL host links at 2 locations, but I don't know how they allocate the EU's to their gateways. 
Is it possible to gateway hop to see if you can get a better connection?
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jaydub

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Re: St3's Migration to IDNet
« Reply #37 on: July 10, 2018, 12:10:56 AM »

IDNet are only guaranteeing that they have low utilisation on their core network.  They cannot, as can any other ISP, guarantee that there is no contention on the Openreach managed part of the network before it reaches their cire network

They explain their core network here: https://www.idnet.net/about/our_network.php  It includes a utilisation colour coded graphic for their major core links.

They were willing to move me from TTB Backhaul to BTw backhaul to resolve some significant variation I was seeing in single thread speeds.  All been good since.


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Admin - fixed url
« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 07:14:56 PM by kitz »
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St3

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Re: St3's Migration to IDNet
« Reply #38 on: July 10, 2018, 12:15:03 AM »

Its not just slow downs for me, since moving to idnet ive had much higher ping in online games some are fine and some games i can no longer play because of the high ms.
Idnet told me its down to game hosts routing, but again before the move i never had these issues with plusnet.

I will try them for a month or so and see how things go
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burakkucat

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Re: St3's Migration to IDNet
« Reply #39 on: July 10, 2018, 12:23:11 AM »

They explain their core network here: https://www.idnet.net/about/our_network.php.

Unfortunately that page no longer exists.  :(
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johnson

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Re: St3's Migration to IDNet
« Reply #40 on: July 10, 2018, 03:06:48 AM »

Its not just slow downs for me, since moving to idnet ive had much higher ping in online games some are fine and some games i can no longer play because of the high ms.
Idnet told me its down to game hosts routing, but again before the move i never had these issues with plusnet.

I will try them for a month or so and see how things go

In my experience latency to online game servers in europe can vary wildly between ISPs. Know people with VM with 5ms to certain servers that I get 40+ms to now, and in the past had 60ms with TTB.

Varies at lot between games as well, I cant get below 30ms to any of the european servers in one game, and always 15ms in another (that ones usually in the netherlands).

Which games can you genuinely not play with the new connection? Unless your super sensitive to it or its a competitive FPS even 70-80ms shouldn't get anywhere near unplayable. If you're rubberbanding around the place and stuttering its more likely to be packet loss than increased latency.

Have you tried running a constant ping to a UK server (eg bbc.co.uk) while playing the game thats this bad? If you see huge spikes then either something on the local network is gobbling bandwidth or there is a serious issue with IDNet.
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spring

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Re: St3's Migration to IDNet
« Reply #41 on: July 10, 2018, 10:03:09 AM »

i get several miliseconds variance in latency between different WAN IP's and even some servers i ping to perform better while others worse or the same, those WAN IP's even being from the same block [say, 186.120.X.X]

so definitely routing, right now i have one IP that simply performs better to a certain game server but not to google servers, had 102ms and 87ms and to kitz it's 87 as well where i had 78 and 75 with previous IP. it rarely happens to be such a "big" variance and i attribute it to this IP being in the last, and obscure block of the isp [my isp has 79.176-183.X.X and 109.64-67.X.X, right now it's 109.67.X.X]

i've had one IP that consistently showed 73ms, so no doubt to have been the IP, as repeated tests showed that variance within moments of switching between IP's, and usually remained that way.

i think your situation will remain that way for your ISP, as in my country it has always been so, some ISP's making certain games unplayable, among other examples. nowadays it did not happen as much but everyone still say the same one ISP has the best routing, so still applies, even if slightly (i'm not updated :-[) .
« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 10:20:22 AM by spring »
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rongtw

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Re: St3's Migration to IDNet
« Reply #42 on: July 10, 2018, 04:47:48 PM »

St3 , yes looks like Idnet problem is similar to what you had at PN so looks like problem lies with BT :( but can Idnet get them to investigate ? 
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jaydub

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Re: St3's Migration to IDNet
« Reply #43 on: July 10, 2018, 04:58:52 PM »

Unfortunately that page no longer exists.  :(
Very strange that the link doesn't work as you can navigate to it off their site.

Go to the bottom of the page and select Our Network under the About IDNet heading.

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

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St3

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Re: St3's Migration to IDNet
« Reply #44 on: July 10, 2018, 05:29:13 PM »

This is one of the games i play via steam > http://www.holdfastgame.com

Before i switched id be getting 20-30 ms now i get 80-90.

Gamer's need the lowest ping possible otherwise game play can sometimes be affected.

Battlefield 1 i also play from time to time, some night i ping on eu servers around 28-35 and sometimes i'm hitting 80-90 again.

I'm not trying to put idnet down, im just trying to find a reason why or a fix.

Pinging bbc.co.uk [151.101.192.81] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 151.101.192.81: bytes=32 time=19ms TTL=61
Reply from 151.101.192.81: bytes=32 time=19ms TTL=61
Reply from 151.101.192.81: bytes=32 time=19ms TTL=61
Reply from 151.101.192.81: bytes=32 time=19ms TTL=61

Ping statistics for 151.101.192.81:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 19ms, Maximum = 19ms, Average = 19ms

Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [151.101.192.81]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  router.asus.com []
  2    19 ms    18 ms    21 ms  telehouse-gw10-10G.idnet.net [212.69.63.54]
  3    19 ms    19 ms    19 ms  telehouse-gw7-10G.idnet.net [212.69.63.126]
  4    19 ms    19 ms    19 ms  ip81-59.fastly-gw1.lonap.net [5.57.81.59]
  5    54 ms    24 ms    19 ms  151.101.192.81

The next tracert below i took a couple of days ago

1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  router.asus.com []
  2    18 ms    18 ms    18 ms  telehouse-gw11-10G.idnet.net [212.69.63.36]
  3    18 ms    18 ms    18 ms  telehouse-gw8-10G.idnet.net [212.69.63.138]
  4    29 ms    60 ms    56 ms  redbus-gw7.idnet.net [212.69.63.94]
  5    55 ms    55 ms    55 ms  netnod-ix-ge-b-sth-1500.hetzner.de [194.68.128.71]
  6    73 ms    73 ms    74 ms  core2.ams.hetzner.com [213.239.245.37]
  7    80 ms    80 ms    80 ms  core4.fra.hetzner.com [213.239.252.45]
  8    86 ms    85 ms    84 ms  core21.fsn1.hetzner.com [213.239.245.13]
  9    84 ms    85 ms    85 ms  ex9k2.dc1.fsn1.hetzner.com [213.239.245.90]
 10    84 ms    84 ms    84 ms  static.53.144.130.94.clients.your-server.de [94.130.144.53]

Ping statistics for 94.130.144.53:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 84ms, Maximum = 84ms, Average = 84ms

Below is what i've just run 1 min ago.

 1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  router.asus.com []
  2    19 ms    19 ms    19 ms  telehouse-gw10-10G.idnet.net [212.69.63.54]
  3    19 ms    19 ms    19 ms  telehouse-gw7-10G.idnet.net [212.69.63.126]
  4   113 ms    19 ms    19 ms  redbus-gw7.idnet.net [212.69.63.94]
  5    27 ms    27 ms    26 ms  amsix-gw.hetzner.de [80.249.209.55]
  6    34 ms    34 ms    34 ms  core4.fra.hetzner.com [213.239.252.45]
  7    88 ms    38 ms    38 ms  core21.fsn1.hetzner.com [213.239.245.13]
  8    57 ms    38 ms    38 ms  ex9k2.dc1.fsn1.hetzner.com [213.239.245.90]
  9   155 ms    63 ms    39 ms  static.53.144.130.94.clients.your-server.de [94.130.144.53]


Pinging 94.130.144.53 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 94.130.144.53: bytes=32 time=39ms TTL=122
Reply from 94.130.144.53: bytes=32 time=58ms TTL=122
Reply from 94.130.144.53: bytes=32 time=39ms TTL=122
Reply from 94.130.144.53: bytes=32 time=39ms TTL=122

Ping statistics for 94.130.144.53:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 39ms, Maximum = 58ms, Average = 43ms

Someone replied to me on the idnet forum saying following....

I experienced the same, traffic to my server at Hetzner was going via Netnod in Stockholm. I contacted both Hetzner and IDNet about it last week, and this morning was informed by IDNet that they are now peering with Hetzner at AMS-IX (Amsterdam).

My new route is below, I expect you'll see similar improvement. For me, this means 49ms instead of 100ms :)

Code: [Select]
  2    30 ms    29 ms    29 ms  telehouse-gw11-10G.idnet.net [212.69.63.36]
  3    30 ms    42 ms    36 ms  telehouse-gw8-10G.idnet.net [212.69.63.138]
  4    30 ms    29 ms    29 ms  redbus-gw7.idnet.net [212.69.63.94]
  5    37 ms    36 ms    37 ms  amsix-gw.hetzner.de [80.249.209.55]
  6    47 ms    44 ms    44 ms  core4.fra.hetzner.com [213.239.252.45]
  7    51 ms    49 ms    49 ms  core21.fsn1.hetzner.com [213.239.245.13]
  8    49 ms    49 ms    49 ms  ex9k2.dc6.fsn1.hetzner.com [213.239.229.82]

But my test is not as good as his.


« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 05:41:29 PM by St3 »
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