Chat > Tech Chat
Interleave - psychology
d2d4j:
Hi
As some may know already, we are a hosting company (actually classed as ESP), and after reading weaver post, I thought I would check a few client sites.
As you can see, the issues tend not to be on the servers/clusters which slow things down (albeit I accept some delays are caused by servers/clusters at times, perhaps by Mysql quese etc... but these are generally carefully tuned and monitored) but in general, a server loading less then 5 is completely acceptable to users viewing websites.
The important point is time to first byte and in general, it is then down to website code.
Interestingly though, some clients wanted full compression turned off for some sites, as they server 4K content, and stated compression caused picture loss (I could not see it myself when I checked but we made the changes for them)
CDN are good, as they cache static (you decide what to cache), and then the website is parallel fed on load of website.
A point to also note, is if users have changed their browser settings for parallel streams, but lets say not many do (even Azure advices parallel changes to speed up Azure browsing/downloading using a browser)
Lastly, be aware of tricks to make you think a page has loaded fully, as it may not have, but most sites become usable prior to fully loaded. As an example, ebay does not fully load for a long time, but looks to load quickly and uses this preceived load trick as I remember, but sorry if I am wrong
From a gamers point of view, there are many tricks gamers use to make latency work for them, such as light switche, which induces high latency (were it is low) when joining a game session, and once the game servers has equalised each session for latency, they turn of light switch, so they now have an advantage over other players (usually easily spotted by players) but if you get caught cheating, your usually banned for life on our name tag
I hope that helps a little
Many thanks
John
Details
First Byte Time (back-end processing): 100/100
98 ms First Byte Time
400 ms Target First Byte Time
Use persistent connections (keep alive): 100/100
Use gzip compression for transferring compressable responses: 100/100
64.3 KB total in compressible text, target size = 64.3 KB - potential savings = 0.0 KB
Compress Images: N/A
Use Progressive JPEGs: N/A
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Details
First Byte Time (back-end processing): 100/100
94 ms First Byte Time
400 ms Target First Byte Time
Use persistent connections (keep alive): 100/100
Use gzip compression for transferring compressable responses: 100/100
302.0 KB total in compressible text, target size = 302.0 KB - potential savings = 0.0 KB
Compress Images: 100/100
9.3 KB total in images, target size = 9.3 KB - potential savings = 0.0 KB
Use Progressive JPEGs: N/A
Leverage browser caching of static assets: 45/100
FAILED - (No max-age or expires) - http://domain.url/interworx_logo.gif
FAILED - (No max-age or expires) - https://www.domain.url/billing/templates/six/css/all.min.css?v=cc7ac8
FAILED - (No max-age or expires) - https://www.domain.url/billing/templates/six/css/custom.css
FAILED - (No max-age or expires) - https://www.domain.url/billing/templates/six/js/scripts.min.js?v=cc7ac8
FAILED - (No max-age or expires) - https://www.domain.url/billing/assets/img/logo.png
FAILED - (No max-age or expires) - https://www.domain.url/billing/templates/six/fonts/fontawesome-webfont.woff2?v=4.7.0
WARNING - (24.0 hours) - https://fonts.googleapis.com/css?family=Open+Sans:300,400,600|Raleway:400,700
Use a CDN for all static assets: 50/100
FAILED - http://domain.url/interworx_logo.gif
FAILED - https://www.domain.url/billing/templates/six/js/scripts.min.js?v=cc7ac8
FAILED - https://www.domain.url/billing/assets/img/logo.png
FAILED - https://www.domain.url/billing/templates/six/fonts/fontawesome-webfont.woff2?v=4.7.0
FAILED - https://www.domain.url/billing/templates/six/css/all.min.css?v=cc7ac8
FAILED - https://www.domain.url/billing/templates/six/css/custom.css
CDN's Used:
domain.url :
www.domain.url :
fonts.googleapis.com : Google
fonts.gstatic.com : Google
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Details
First Byte Time (back-end processing): 100/100
261 ms First Byte Time
400 ms Target First Byte Time
Use persistent connections (keep alive): 100/100
Use gzip compression for transferring compressable responses: 100/100
53.8 KB total in compressible text, target size = 53.8 KB - potential savings = 0.0 KB
Compress Images: 89/100
1,018.7 KB total in images, target size = 904.1 KB - potential savings = 114.6 KB
WARNING - (118.0 KB, compressed = 59.5 KB - savings of 58.5 KB) - https://www.domain1.pink/plugins/language_switch/flag_sprite.jpg
WARNING - (41.6 KB, compressed = 23.1 KB - savings of 18.6 KB) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2015/06/13/20150613124312-d99a8126-cu_s9999x200.jpg
WARNING - (22.1 KB, compressed = 12.0 KB - savings of 10.2 KB) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2016/03/03/20160303232717-00f99757-cu_s9999x200.jpg
WARNING - (22.2 KB, compressed = 12.6 KB - savings of 9.6 KB) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2015/07/10/20150710202107-82db246b-cu_s9999x200.jpg
WARNING - (39.4 KB, compressed = 33.4 KB - savings of 6.0 KB) - https://www.domain1.pink///upload/2015/07/10/20150710202107-82db246b.jpg
WARNING - (16.8 KB, compressed = 11.2 KB - savings of 5.6 KB) - https://www.domain1.pink/themes/Sylvia/images/top-left-bg.jpg
WARNING - (10.3 KB, compressed = 6.0 KB - savings of 4.2 KB) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2015/06/13/20150613124316-2c0e5aa8-th.jpg
WARNING - (8.9 KB, compressed = 7.0 KB - savings of 1.9 KB) - https://www.domain1.pink/themes/Sylvia/images/bottom-left-bg.jpg
Use Progressive JPEGs: 34/100
96.3 KB of a possible 270.4 KB (36%) were from progressive JPEG images
FAILED (118.0 KB) - https://www.domain1.pink/plugins/language_switch/flag_sprite.jpg
FAILED (39.4 KB) - https://www.domain1.pink///upload/2015/07/10/20150710202107-82db246b.jpg
FAILED (16.8 KB) - https://www.domain1.pink/themes/Sylvia/images/top-left-bg.jpg
Info (8.9 KB) - https://www.domain1.pink/themes/Sylvia/images/bottom-left-bg.jpg
Leverage browser caching of static assets: 50/100
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/galleries/MyVideoClip/pwg_representative/IMG_0256-cu_s9999x200.png
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2017/05/19/20170519101423-1e803900-th.png
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2017/05/19/20170519101337-59917276-th.png
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2015/06/18/20150618141148-3c224d76-th.png
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2017/05/19/20170519101440-b848289b-th.png
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2017/05/19/20170519101317-ac5710ef-th.png
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WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2016/06/01/20160601121820-d47fd431-th.png
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2015/06/18/20150618141214-2f2b0a89-th.png
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2017/05/19/20170519101430-fe62e4b1-th.png
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2015/06/18/20150618141202-4e420dca-th.png
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2015/06/13/20150613124316-2c0e5aa8-th.jpg
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2015/06/18/20150618141149-80554b9f-th.png
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2015/06/18/20150618141216-dcdad455-th.png
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2017/05/19/20170519101443-be137978-th.png
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2017/05/19/20170519101334-93ff8287-th.png
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2016/06/01/20160601122324-37ff76d8-th.png
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2017/05/19/20170519101311-1a611c33-th.png
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2015/06/18/20150618141212-18dc5609-th.png
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2015/06/18/20150618141154-92cad752-th.png
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2017/05/19/20170519101309-3452ee84-th.png
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2017/05/19/20170519101446-dfc1c088-th.png
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2017/05/19/20170519101453-6d2928ae-th.png
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2017/05/19/20170519101435-17d2b5a0-th.png
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink/_data/combined/jjavwu.js
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink/themes/Sylvia/images/transparent.gif
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2016/03/03/20160303232717-00f99757-cu_s9999x200.jpg
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2015/06/13/20150613124312-d99a8126-cu_s9999x200.jpg
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///themes/default/images/ajax_loader.gif
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2015/07/10/20150710202107-82db246b-cu_s9999x200.jpg
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///plugins/Media_Icon/template/media_icon.css
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink/_data/combined/prf8r9.js
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink/_data/combined/vdk6v8.css
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink/themes/Sylvia/images/bottom-left-bg.jpg
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink/themes/Sylvia/images/top-left-bg.jpg
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink/themes/Sylvia/images/fillet.gif
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink/themes/Sylvia/images/menuId_top.gif
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink/plugins/rv_menutree/img/bpm.gif
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink/themes/Sylvia/images/menuId_bottom.gif
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink/themes/Sylvia/images/menuId_sides.gif
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink/themes/Sylvia/images/menuBox_sides.gif
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink/themes/Sylvia/images/menuBox_top.gif
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink/themes/Sylvia/images/menuBox_bottom.gif
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink/plugins/language_switch/flag_sprite.jpg
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink/themes/default/s26/outline_ff3363.png
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink/_data/combined/12idky6.js
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2017/05/19/20170519101313-e30f7456-th.png
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///upload/2015/07/10/20150710202107-82db246b.jpg
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///local/favicon.ico
Use a CDN for all static assets: 100/100
CDN's Used:
www.domain1.pink : Cloudflare
Weaver:
I used a couple of good tools many years ago to check cacheability and give performance improvement tips, can't remember now it was so long ago.
On the forums though I hear people getting really steamed up about interleave, and many of them give me the impression that they believe - incorrectly of course - that interleave reduces throughout. Latency and throughput are completely different things, but of course with a stop-and-wait or ping-pong protocol, or inadequate window size, then latency could start to limit throughput, but that is a configuration problem or an o/s problem and not the fault of interleaving. Also if you just had a long fat network, such as satellite, or a path to New Zealand with a very large number of hops, so that there was some other reason than interleaving causing a long RTT then exactly the same throughput hobbling thing would happen if you combine that with an inadequate window size or even a completely stop-and-wait protocol. Latency is only a problem for throughput if things are not set up correctly and nowadays we have had TCP window scale for a long time so there is no proper reason for silly inadequate window sizes.
spring:
16ms [8ms DS/US] interleaving latency is practically almost meaningless for anything not real-time, when there's anything interactive going on it's going to actually make it slower [like websites, as johnson said], but my ping to europe is 70-120ms, for 80ms an extra 16ms is a 20% increase, but how much worse is 96ms? as jonhson said it's more about the experience than "internet health". some people have higher needs though.
it would affect chain query performance, like background interactions, 10 chain queries being 16x10=160ms but that's 16% of a second.
j0hn:
Considering how much some gamers spend on monitors to reduce input lag by 1-2ms you could then appreciate how frustrating having 8/16ms added latency is.
Add to that the roughly 10% overheads it takes off your sync speed then I would rather be fastpath everyday of the week.
It's that important too many that it is a factor in deciding ISP.
I used Talktalk LLU ADSL for years because of the control of DLM it gave.
When connected to my ECI cabinet my line could not retain fastpath with the OpenReach Standard DLM profile.
I would need to choose an ISP who uses the Speed profile to keep interleaving away.
spring:
--- Quote from: j0hn on July 06, 2018, 04:55:33 PM ---Considering how much some gamers spend on monitors to reduce input lag by 1-2ms you could then appreciate how frustrating having 8/16ms added latency is.
--- End quote ---
i honestly still can't, given there is a thing called reality and i don't think gaming deaths have any direct correlation with real life, opposed to something serious. people mine bitcoin for personal wealth, this isn't different. but, this is the new age, so what i say is "stupid". in the end everything will roll where people point it at, if he cares he's going to be impacted by the 16ms. although in a perfect world, i would understand that gamer. i'm speaking in general of course, because as you said interleaving can be turned off, perhaps as a trade-off for a lower sync. latency impact on gaming however, especially 16ms, is going to matter only in some situations, mostly action games, and won't make the player any better, in general it can also make the player lose sometimes [team vs team game], and the fact that it's on that player's end isn't as significant as input/output lag [mouse/screen], because he wouldn't die before he had seen it, just the same effect as distance-caused latency. some youtubers make money off of this but it boils up to what he can work with anyway, taking off 1ms is going to be done out of principle, by me too, but frustrating is a different thing.
--- Quote from: j0hn on July 06, 2018, 04:55:33 PM ---would rather
--- End quote ---
sums it up nicely
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