Kitz ADSL Broadband Information
adsl spacer  
Support this site
Home Broadband ISPs Tech Routers Wiki Forum
 
     
   Compare ISP   Rate your ISP
   Glossary   Glossary
 
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Pages: [1] 2 3

Author Topic: Interleave - psychology  (Read 1442 times)

Weaver

  • Addicted Kitizen
  • *****
  • Posts: 6385
  • Retd sw dev; A&A; 4 × 7km ADSL2; IPv6; Firebrick
Interleave - psychology
« on: July 06, 2018, 04:58:04 AM »

Why is it that some people really really hate interleaving on their DSL lines? Gamers are one well-known group. Is that all though?
Logged

johnson

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 521
Re: Interleave - psychology
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2018, 06:33:43 AM »

I guess a lot of it is about it being a clear number you can measure and that creates a heavy subjective influence.

But modern websites can create an insane amount of requests from other places before loading, and a good deal of those will not be in parallel. With enough serial requests you can get up into noticeable fractions of a second.

Say your baseline latency is 10ms, add 16 for the minimal level of interleaving and it would take 20 ads/scripts/widgets/etc that depend on each other - far from unheard of in the modern web, to generate over half a second of time before your "simple page" loads. For every page load. This sounds tiny but the results seem to be clear in browsing feel.

I remember articles from years ago, cant remember the analysts, might of even been google, about whether people stayed on a page. It was strongly correlated with page load time in the ms range. People are super sensitive to it, so a doubling in latency (which interleaving often does and more) could have a significant effect on peoples perception of their experience.

That at least is one reason I believe people care about latency.

As for the gaming one, its an even stronger subjective effect... I lost because of this etc.
Logged

Weaver

  • Addicted Kitizen
  • *****
  • Posts: 6385
  • Retd sw dev; A&A; 4 × 7km ADSL2; IPv6; Firebrick
Re: Interleave - psychology
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2018, 07:27:44 AM »

Given that the client is allowed to fire up multiple parallel TCP connections (in http 1.x anyway, not sure about http 2.0) as you say if you had objects that depend on one another, then that would be bad. A css file that references a bitmap or a font file would be an example. I wouldn't have thought you could get long chains of them, although an i frame that references something else might add another step into a chain making it longer still.

But given that we have to put up with TCP slow-start in HTTP every time then there is that to consider in the long chain case. I wonder how much delay that contributes compared to round trip time?

I currently have an RTT of ~40ms, with interleave has recently been reduced a bit due to PhyR Broadcom L2 RETX on ADSL2.

So, my questions:
* Do we really think that anyone notices that, or times two, or times three even in a longer chain?
* Or, do they just think that they will notice it?
* Or do they actually experience slowness, but it is due to other reasons, like slow-start? Or lack of cacheability of the objects on the server due to rubbish design or server config?

Rubbish web design meaning no cacheability will really hurt visitors and the server, because all this junk like js, CSS, bitmaps, favicons, fonts, P3P is all highly cacheable so it just needs the server config to be done right. And stuff needs the usual headers - date stamps, etags. Plus the handling of conditional GETs must be done properly. Cacheability completely does away with aabsolutely all of those delays because if it is does right then there should not even need to be any requests at all of any kind for those files. Maybe there is still a lot of this madness and ignorance about. I have indeed seen some shocking sites. A particularly sluggish tourism website for somewhere in the Channel Isles that I remember had the browser refetching absolutely everything even when you move from page to page within the site and then do a back! Some poor fools who are just copying magic incantations that the have seen somewhere with zero understanding are actually going out of their way to explicitly try to disable all caching because “caching is bad”, someone has told them, “dangerous”. It is vital to thrash the server as hard as possible at all times, and to rack up the biggest possible bill for network i/o.

It is true it seems to me that websites have remained fairly sluggish in terms of time to fire up a page over the last 15 years or so even though internet connections have got vastly faster. It is perhaps the increasing amount of page complexity, mountains of javascript, perhaps lots of ads and trackers, stupid social media buttons have proliferated, that junk is an example of something that was not there 16 years ago. The latest bloatware fads of 2028 are a (i) new wave of moronic cowardly cookie law notices and (ii) a rash of CSS position:fixed (iirc0windows that just do nothing but cut down you viewport size and rob you of vital screen real estate all because the designers are pushing some function as being so vital that not having it permanently visible could bring disaster and having to scroll would be an unforgivable tragedy.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 12:58:30 PM by Weaver »
Logged

4candles

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 2542
  • Not young enough to know everything
Re: Interleave - psychology
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2018, 10:31:20 AM »

On the original question - maybe because their router stats used to say "FastPath", so they assume they're now on a "slow path".
Logged
Most things are somewhere else

johnson

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 521
Re: Interleave - psychology
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2018, 10:51:59 AM »

You make a lot of good points Weaver. I'd love an actual web dev to weigh in though.
Logged

d2d4j

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 729
Re: Interleave - psychology
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2018, 11:53:30 AM »

Hi

As some may know already, we are a hosting company (actually classed as ESP), and after reading weaver post, I thought I would check a few client sites.

As you can see, the issues tend not to be on the servers/clusters which slow things down (albeit I accept some delays are caused by servers/clusters at times, perhaps by Mysql quese etc... but these are generally carefully tuned and monitored) but in general, a server loading less then 5 is completely acceptable to users viewing websites. 

The important point is time to first byte and in general, it is then down to website code.

Interestingly though, some clients wanted full compression turned off for some sites, as they server 4K content, and stated compression caused picture loss (I could not see it myself when I checked but we made the changes for them)

CDN are good, as they cache static (you decide what to cache), and then the website is parallel fed on load of website.

A point to also note, is if users have changed their browser settings for parallel streams, but lets say not many do (even Azure advices parallel changes to speed up Azure browsing/downloading using a browser)

Lastly, be aware of tricks to make you think a page has loaded fully, as it may not have, but most sites become usable prior to fully loaded.  As an example, ebay does not fully load for a long time, but looks to load quickly and uses this preceived load trick as I remember, but sorry if I am wrong

From a gamers point of view, there are many tricks gamers use to make latency work for them, such as light switche, which induces high latency (were it is low) when joining a game session, and once the game servers has equalised each session for latency, they turn of light switch, so they now have an advantage over other players (usually easily spotted by players) but if you get caught cheating, your usually banned for life on our name tag

I hope that helps a little

Many thanks

John

Details

First Byte Time (back-end processing): 100/100

 98 ms First Byte Time
400 ms Target First Byte Time

Use persistent connections (keep alive): 100/100

Use gzip compression for transferring compressable responses: 100/100
 
64.3 KB total in compressible text, target size = 64.3 KB - potential savings = 0.0 KB

Compress Images: N/A

Use Progressive JPEGs: N/A

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Details

First Byte Time (back-end processing): 100/100

 94 ms First Byte Time
400 ms Target First Byte Time

Use persistent connections (keep alive): 100/100

Use gzip compression for transferring compressable responses: 100/100
 
302.0 KB total in compressible text, target size = 302.0 KB - potential savings = 0.0 KB

Compress Images: 100/100
 
9.3 KB total in images, target size = 9.3 KB - potential savings = 0.0 KB

Use Progressive JPEGs: N/A

Leverage browser caching of static assets: 45/100
 
FAILED - (No max-age or expires) - http://domain.url/interworx_logo.gif
 FAILED - (No max-age or expires) - https://www.domain.url/billing/templates/six/css/all.min.css?v=cc7ac8
 FAILED - (No max-age or expires) - https://www.domain.url/billing/templates/six/css/custom.css
 FAILED - (No max-age or expires) - https://www.domain.url/billing/templates/six/js/scripts.min.js?v=cc7ac8
 FAILED - (No max-age or expires) - https://www.domain.url/billing/assets/img/logo.png
 FAILED - (No max-age or expires) - https://www.domain.url/billing/templates/six/fonts/fontawesome-webfont.woff2?v=4.7.0
 WARNING - (24.0 hours) - https://fonts.googleapis.com/css?family=Open+Sans:300,400,600|Raleway:400,700

Use a CDN for all static assets: 50/100

FAILED - http://domain.url/interworx_logo.gif
 FAILED - https://www.domain.url/billing/templates/six/js/scripts.min.js?v=cc7ac8
 FAILED - https://www.domain.url/billing/assets/img/logo.png
 FAILED - https://www.domain.url/billing/templates/six/fonts/fontawesome-webfont.woff2?v=4.7.0
 FAILED - https://www.domain.url/billing/templates/six/css/all.min.css?v=cc7ac8
 FAILED - https://www.domain.url/billing/templates/six/css/custom.css

CDN's Used:
domain.url :
www.domain.url :
fonts.googleapis.com : Google
fonts.gstatic.com : Google

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Details

First Byte Time (back-end processing): 100/100

 261 ms First Byte Time
400 ms Target First Byte Time

Use persistent connections (keep alive): 100/100

Use gzip compression for transferring compressable responses: 100/100
 
53.8 KB total in compressible text, target size = 53.8 KB - potential savings = 0.0 KB

Compress Images: 89/100
 
1,018.7 KB total in images, target size = 904.1 KB - potential savings = 114.6 KB

WARNING - (118.0 KB, compressed = 59.5 KB - savings of 58.5 KB) - https://www.domain1.pink/plugins/language_switch/flag_sprite.jpg
 WARNING - (41.6 KB, compressed = 23.1 KB - savings of 18.6 KB) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2015/06/13/20150613124312-d99a8126-cu_s9999x200.jpg
 WARNING - (22.1 KB, compressed = 12.0 KB - savings of 10.2 KB) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2016/03/03/20160303232717-00f99757-cu_s9999x200.jpg
 WARNING - (22.2 KB, compressed = 12.6 KB - savings of 9.6 KB) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2015/07/10/20150710202107-82db246b-cu_s9999x200.jpg
 WARNING - (39.4 KB, compressed = 33.4 KB - savings of 6.0 KB) - https://www.domain1.pink///upload/2015/07/10/20150710202107-82db246b.jpg
 WARNING - (16.8 KB, compressed = 11.2 KB - savings of 5.6 KB) - https://www.domain1.pink/themes/Sylvia/images/top-left-bg.jpg
 WARNING - (10.3 KB, compressed = 6.0 KB - savings of 4.2 KB) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2015/06/13/20150613124316-2c0e5aa8-th.jpg
 WARNING - (8.9 KB, compressed = 7.0 KB - savings of 1.9 KB) - https://www.domain1.pink/themes/Sylvia/images/bottom-left-bg.jpg

Use Progressive JPEGs: 34/100
 
96.3 KB of a possible 270.4 KB (36%) were from progressive JPEG images

FAILED (118.0 KB) - https://www.domain1.pink/plugins/language_switch/flag_sprite.jpg
 FAILED (39.4 KB) - https://www.domain1.pink///upload/2015/07/10/20150710202107-82db246b.jpg
 FAILED (16.8 KB) - https://www.domain1.pink/themes/Sylvia/images/top-left-bg.jpg
 Info (8.9 KB) - https://www.domain1.pink/themes/Sylvia/images/bottom-left-bg.jpg

Leverage browser caching of static assets: 50/100
 
WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/galleries/MyVideoClip/pwg_representative/IMG_0256-cu_s9999x200.png
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2017/05/19/20170519101423-1e803900-th.png
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2017/05/19/20170519101337-59917276-th.png
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2015/06/18/20150618141148-3c224d76-th.png
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2017/05/19/20170519101440-b848289b-th.png
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2017/05/19/20170519101317-ac5710ef-th.png
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2017/05/19/20170519101426-677feade-th.png
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2017/05/19/20170519101326-54a56fa9-th.png
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2016/06/01/20160601121820-d47fd431-th.png
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2015/06/18/20150618141214-2f2b0a89-th.png
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2017/05/19/20170519101430-fe62e4b1-th.png
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2015/06/18/20150618141202-4e420dca-th.png
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2015/06/13/20150613124316-2c0e5aa8-th.jpg
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2015/06/18/20150618141149-80554b9f-th.png
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2015/06/18/20150618141216-dcdad455-th.png
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2017/05/19/20170519101443-be137978-th.png
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2017/05/19/20170519101334-93ff8287-th.png
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2016/06/01/20160601122324-37ff76d8-th.png
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2017/05/19/20170519101311-1a611c33-th.png
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2015/06/18/20150618141212-18dc5609-th.png
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2015/06/18/20150618141154-92cad752-th.png
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2017/05/19/20170519101309-3452ee84-th.png
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2017/05/19/20170519101446-dfc1c088-th.png
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2017/05/19/20170519101453-6d2928ae-th.png
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2017/05/19/20170519101435-17d2b5a0-th.png
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink/_data/combined/jjavwu.js
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink/themes/Sylvia/images/transparent.gif
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2016/03/03/20160303232717-00f99757-cu_s9999x200.jpg
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2015/06/13/20150613124312-d99a8126-cu_s9999x200.jpg
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///themes/default/images/ajax_loader.gif
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2015/07/10/20150710202107-82db246b-cu_s9999x200.jpg
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///plugins/Media_Icon/template/media_icon.css
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink/_data/combined/prf8r9.js
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink/_data/combined/vdk6v8.css
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink/themes/Sylvia/images/bottom-left-bg.jpg
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink/themes/Sylvia/images/top-left-bg.jpg
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink/themes/Sylvia/images/fillet.gif
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink/themes/Sylvia/images/menuId_top.gif
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink/plugins/rv_menutree/img/bpm.gif
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink/themes/Sylvia/images/menuId_bottom.gif
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink/themes/Sylvia/images/menuId_sides.gif
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink/themes/Sylvia/images/menuBox_sides.gif
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink/themes/Sylvia/images/menuBox_top.gif
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink/themes/Sylvia/images/menuBox_bottom.gif
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink/plugins/language_switch/flag_sprite.jpg
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink/themes/default/s26/outline_ff3363.png
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink/_data/combined/12idky6.js
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///_data/i/upload/2017/05/19/20170519101313-e30f7456-th.png
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///upload/2015/07/10/20150710202107-82db246b.jpg
 WARNING - (4.0 hours) - https://www.domain1.pink///local/favicon.ico

Use a CDN for all static assets: 100/100
 
CDN's Used:
www.domain1.pink : Cloudflare

Logged

Weaver

  • Addicted Kitizen
  • *****
  • Posts: 6385
  • Retd sw dev; A&A; 4 × 7km ADSL2; IPv6; Firebrick
Re: Interleave - psychology
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2018, 12:29:08 PM »

I used a couple of good tools many years ago to check cacheability and give performance improvement tips, can't remember now it was so long ago.

On the forums though I hear people getting really steamed up about interleave, and many of them give me the impression that they believe - incorrectly of course - that interleave reduces throughout. Latency and throughput are completely different things, but of course with a stop-and-wait or ping-pong protocol, or inadequate window size, then latency could start to limit throughput, but that is a configuration problem or an o/s problem and not the fault of interleaving. Also if you just had a long fat network, such as satellite, or a path to New Zealand with a very large number of hops, so that there was some other reason than interleaving causing a long RTT then exactly the same throughput hobbling thing would happen if you combine that with an inadequate window size or even a completely stop-and-wait protocol. Latency is only a problem for throughput if things are not set up correctly and nowadays we have had TCP window scale for a long time so there is no proper reason for silly inadequate window sizes.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2018, 12:36:18 PM by Weaver »
Logged

spring

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 322
Re: Interleave - psychology
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2018, 04:34:34 PM »

16ms [8ms DS/US] interleaving latency is practically almost meaningless for anything not real-time, when there's anything interactive going on it's going to actually make it slower [like websites, as johnson said], but my ping to europe is 70-120ms, for 80ms an extra 16ms is a 20% increase, but how much worse is 96ms? as jonhson said it's more about the experience than "internet health". some people have higher needs though.

it would affect chain query performance, like background interactions, 10 chain queries being 16x10=160ms but that's 16% of a second.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2018, 04:48:46 PM by spring »
Logged
No one knows what is the taste of the void.

j0hn

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1918
Re: Interleave - psychology
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2018, 04:55:33 PM »

Considering how much some gamers spend on monitors to reduce input lag by 1-2ms you could then appreciate how frustrating having 8/16ms added latency is.

Add to that the roughly 10% overheads it takes off your sync speed then I would rather be fastpath everyday of the week.

It's that important too many that it is a factor in deciding ISP.

I used Talktalk LLU ADSL for years because of the control of DLM it gave.

When connected to my ECI cabinet my line could not retain fastpath with the OpenReach Standard DLM profile.
I would need to choose an ISP who uses the Speed profile to keep interleaving away.
Logged
BT FTTC 55/10 ECI now Huawei cab
Zyxel VMG1312-B10A bridge mode with 1508 MTU + Asus RT-AC68U running Asuswrt-Merlin

spring

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 322
Re: Interleave - psychology
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2018, 05:38:06 PM »

Considering how much some gamers spend on monitors to reduce input lag by 1-2ms you could then appreciate how frustrating having 8/16ms added latency is.
i honestly still can't, given there is a thing called reality and i don't think gaming deaths have any direct correlation with real life, opposed to something serious. people mine bitcoin for personal wealth, this isn't different. but, this is the new age, so what i say is "stupid". in the end everything will roll where people point it at, if he cares he's going to be impacted by the 16ms. although in a perfect world, i would understand that gamer. i'm speaking in general of course, because as you said interleaving can be turned off, perhaps as a trade-off for a lower sync. latency impact on gaming however, especially 16ms, is going to matter only in some situations, mostly action games, and won't make the player any better, in general it can also make the player lose sometimes [team vs team game], and the fact that it's on that player's end isn't as significant as input/output lag [mouse/screen], because he wouldn't die before he had seen it, just the same effect as distance-caused latency. some youtubers make money off of this but it boils up to what he can work with anyway, taking off 1ms is going to be done out of principle, by me too, but frustrating is a different thing.

would rather
sums it up nicely
« Last Edit: July 06, 2018, 06:04:39 PM by spring »
Logged
No one knows what is the taste of the void.

ejs

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1768
Re: Interleave - psychology
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2018, 05:40:03 PM »

Add to that the roughly 10% overheads it takes off your sync speed then I would rather be fastpath everyday of the week.

I think that only applies to how it is used on Openreach's FTTC. My ADSL line achieves a higher sync speed with interleaving than without. But the BTWholesale DLM tends to want to turn the interleaving off, so I've had it set to always be on.

Yes, part of the problem is that people can see the delay added and the number of FEC bytes in the stats, but they can't so easily see the effect of the coding gain and the impact on the CRC rate.
Logged

nallar

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 56
    • Smokeping
Re: Interleave - psychology
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2018, 05:46:17 PM »

An increase in latency also has an impact on TCP slow start.

As latency increases, connections will take longer to get up to speed.
Logged
Virgin Media cable, A&A ADSL. OPNsense router.

burakkucat

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 24231
  • Over the Rainbow Bridge
    • The ELRepo Project
Re: Interleave - psychology
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2018, 06:23:20 PM »

My G.992.3 service is interleaved. I'm quite happy with that.  :)

Just in case it was missed, I'd like to echo what 4c typed --

On the original question - maybe because their router stats used to say "FastPath", so they assume they're now on a "slow path".

I will go as far as suggesting that "FastPath" should be eradicated and all xDSL services should be interleaved. The full range of interleaving should be possible . . . starting at 1 and increasing as a binary sequence. By that I mean 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32 . . .

And before anyone points the attack-hounds in my direction, please consider what an interleaving depth of 1 actually means.  :angel:
Logged
:cat:  100% Linux and, previously, Unix. Co-founder of the ELRepo Project.

Please consider making a donation to support the running of this site.

d2d4j

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 729
Re: Interleave - psychology
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2018, 07:39:48 PM »

Hi

I hope no one minds, but I’m losing track of the question, or perhaps didn’t fully understand the question (easily done at my age, with the heat and everything going on here)

In terms of gaming though, 20ms or less is considered good, 160ms and above would become noticeable to online gamers playing (gta5 etc...)

I am a gamer and connect to servers around the world, usually anywhere between 37 - 140 ms, which is not noticeable in play.

This is usually because the game servers do attempt to equalise all session players latency (which will vary), so no one should have any real latency advantage. So if you connect to a game server at 10ms, and the worst session gamer is 140ms, the latency adapter will equalise so the player with 10ms is increased in delay to match the player at 140ms as a crude example. 

Next gamer moan as in the old days would be the length of patch cables not been equal haha

The reality is on shift, I am ranked around 860 from world players (I have not given exact rank so no one knows my tag) and I won players on lower latency as well as higher latency. Some though, as I said use light switch cheat but you instantly know this is used if you know what to look out for

Many thanks

John
Logged

ejs

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1768
Re: Interleave - psychology
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2018, 08:14:11 PM »

Perhaps another reason for people to hate it is because it can be viewed as the DLM masking problems, assuming someone has had interleaving applied due to some DLM action. Then there's the horrific injustice / unfairness element of your line not being as good as someone else's, as if all lines can be better than average. ::)

There are probably two different groups of people:
People who actually notice the difference in latency.
People who look at their DSL stats and/or ping monitor and complain about the numbers changing, or need to ask if their numbers are bad.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3