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Author Topic: Whats the Difference?  (Read 866 times)

St3

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Whats the Difference?
« on: July 03, 2018, 07:04:49 PM »

Between a router connected to a Huawei HG612 And a router modem in one ?

Which is better ?
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chenks

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Re: Whats the Difference?
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2018, 07:39:48 PM »

one is 1 two box solution and one is a 1 box solution.
as to which is "better"? there isn't a black and white answer.

personally i'm a 3 box solution. 1 modem, 1 router and 1 AP.
i'd rather not have a single point of total failure.
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psychopomp1

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Re: Whats the Difference?
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2018, 10:12:36 PM »

A standalone router usually offers far more functionality than an all-in-one unit, especially things like running OpenVPN on it and can be flashed with 3rd part firmware such as Merlin fw for Asus routers or DD-WRT for non-Asus routers. Also standalone routers can have more powerful CPUs, eg the Netgear X10 or Asus ROG GT-AC5300. Asus' latest RT-AC86U or Netgear R7800 are the 2 highly rated routers out there at sensible prices.

However, if you do not require advanced router functions then an all-in-one router will be just as good, eg TP Link VR2800, Billion 8900AX, Netgear D7800 or TP Link VR900. The first three are high end standalone routers and will cost > 150 notes, however the TP Link VR900 is priced around 100 notes.
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St3

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Re: Whats the Difference?
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2018, 10:40:31 PM »

Thanks for the advice :)

Well i don't need any fancy advanced stuff, i might look into getting an all in one for about 100 notes.
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Weaver

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Re: Whats the Difference?
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2018, 11:19:35 PM »

I am with chenks. A three box solution is the way to go. It is also about placement. The modem really needs to be very close to the wallsocket for performance - and in fact if the wallsocket is in the right place then it should be moved to the wrong place in order to shorten house-internal wiring as much as possible and reduce interference pickup inside the house. The length of cable from the outside world to the wallsocket should be as short as possible. And the modem-to wallsocket cable needs to be extremely short to get the last ounce of performance.

However, a wireless access point (WAP) needs to be positioned in the right place so that it helps give good coverage. And if that is  it enough, you should have additional WAPs parked wherever you need them. So the actual physical split is between the positioning of modem and wireless kit. Excellent wireless kit always needs to be bought separately, you are not going to get it in random combination wireless routers. 802.11ac-wave-2 beamforming WAPs have longer reach because they can form a jet if energy pointing in one direction towards a particular station they are talking to and they have other clever tricks too. 802.11ac wave 2 is superb.High spec WAPs behave better in a crowded environment where you have neighbours using up a lot of frequencies, because they can use a lot of 5GHz channels, not just the very overcrowded 2.4GHz band where there are only 3  distinct 20 MHz non-interfering frequencies/channels, or at pinch 4 if everyone is cooperating and all WAPs including neighbours are carefully positioned on the correct frequencies. The 5 GHz band has a lot of 40MHz channels available, double the speed, less range, or 20 MHz channels can be used and twice as many of them. So no interference from neighbours if things are set up right. Rubbish wireless routers do not have 5 GHz at all, or may not have twin radios so they cannot run in both frequencies simultaneously.

As for routers, if one does what you need and has a decent firewall then that is fine. If you have FTTC then many modems are good performers. If you have an ultra long line and ADSL1/2/2+ then you desperately need an outstanding modem and a multi-box setup is vital so that you get the best modem and really good wireless.

So I am with chenks, it is not about fancy features at all, it is about high speed DSL (excellent modem and physical positioning) and very high speed wireless LAN plus excellent coverage (high spec WAP and good physical placement or several WAPs).

[Moderator edited to fix a few typos caused by auto-correct doing the wrong thing!]
« Last Edit: July 04, 2018, 12:36:04 AM by Weaver »
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sotonsam

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Re: Whats the Difference?
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2018, 11:43:19 PM »

I'm more of a 3 box person as well. I like to keep the line equipment (i.e. the modem) separate to the router. I use pfSense for that element and there's a hell of a lot of functionality you can achieve with that as opposed to an all in one box. I have a separate AP setup with Ubquiti which works well.

I just think having 1 device for each element adds greater flexibility.
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Weaver

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Re: Whats the Difference?
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2018, 12:39:32 AM »

I use ZyXel VMG 1312-B10A modems times three, a Firebrick router and two old ZyXEL NWA 3560-N WAPs, plus some more waiting to be installed. I have two Cisco 802.11ac wave 2 WAPs as well but have not managed to get hold of the right software load to make them work properly so I am stuffed with them at the moment.
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chenks

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Re: Whats the Difference?
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2018, 07:42:02 AM »

in fact i may move to a 4 box solution in the near future.

1 x modem, 1 x router (the router being just that routing only), 1 x switch, 1 x AP.
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Weaver

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Re: Whats the Difference?
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2018, 07:53:31 AM »

chenks - I forgot the switch, I am already on a 4-box system, I use a HP switch.
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psychopomp1

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Re: Whats the Difference?
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2018, 08:06:07 AM »

it is about high speed DSL (excellent modem and physical positioning) and very high speed wireless LAN plus excellent coverage (high spec WAP and good physical placement or several WAPs).

and you could get the best of both worlds by using a high end all-in-one router such as a Billion 8900AX which uses the latest (or newish) Broadcom xDSL chipset and is a Wave2 Mu-Mimo 4x4 stream based router. For many people this will be more than enough but of course those who have 1 metre thick walls and/or live in a 5 floor mansion will need additional access points.
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Weaver

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Re: Whats the Difference?
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2018, 10:20:34 AM »

@psychopomp1 -  that is a really good tip then, superb value!

It doesn't solve the physical placement issue, but then if that doesn't apply to you, then just wow!

I have stone walls that are more than a metre thick in some places! But my old house is small.
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michty_me

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Re: Whats the Difference?
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2018, 10:45:44 AM »

I've gone from a two box solution to a one box solution and now back to a two box solution.

I wanted the single unit to keep everything neat and tidy as it is located in the centre of my hall way as you walk in the door.
However, After a couple of years, The Single unit has started locking up and I have now just resolved this issue by adding a standalone modem and using the Single unit to do only router/AP functions.

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Weaver

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Re: Whats the Difference?
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2018, 11:08:52 AM »

I wanted the master socket in the right place, not somewhere where it was a pain, so I got BT in to move it, called “change point of entry”. Best money ever spent.
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Deathstar

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Re: Whats the Difference?
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2018, 11:49:27 AM »

in fact i may move to a 4 box solution in the near future.

1 x modem, 1 x router (the router being just that routing only), 1 x switch, 1 x AP.
That is where I am at the moment, mainly driven by the fact the my routers Lan ports are slowly beginning to fail.

Switch is an unmanaged one though.

Modem next to incoming NTE faceplate, router and switch under TV.
AP in the Conservatory, hard wired with CAT6 external FTP.
You also could say I have a 5 box solution, as I also have Netgear EX6400 in the loft serving the NAS and CCTV, with a POE switch.
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adrianw

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Re: Whats the Difference?
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2018, 02:34:41 PM »

I too am in the 4 box camp, both at home and remote.
Bridge mode modem.
pfSense firewall.
Switch.
Access point.

More complicated, more cables, initially more expensive, but to my mind more flexible.
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