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Author Topic: Comparing VMG1312-B10A with Vigor 2760  (Read 765 times)

hushcoden

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Comparing VMG1312-B10A with Vigor 2760
« on: July 03, 2018, 07:03:40 AM »

As I am on an ECI cab, I wanted to compare my VMG1312-B10A with the Vigor 2760 which is now running since 18 hours (see attachment).

Those were the stats of the Zyxel a few weeks ago:
Code: [Select]
xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    1
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 22660 Kbps, Downstream rate = 77933 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 9995 Kbps, Downstream rate = 39994 Kbps

Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        14.5            15.9
Attn(dB):        14.9            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        1.2             1.2

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           18              219
B:              31              235
M:              1               1
T:              64              7
R:              10              16
S:              0.0255          0.7508
L:              13200           2717
D:              1283            1
I:              42              255
N:              42              255

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            1564245243              1081372
OHFErr:         1792            13
RS:             3669564313              937110
RSCorr:         13807236                156
RSUnCorr:       6787            0

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            982             0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    3079202053              0
Data Cells:     1649028873              0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             5136            14
SES:            18              0
UAS:            70              60
AS:             3837992

                        Bearer 0
INP:            3.50            0.00
INPRein:        0.00            0.00
delay:          8               0
PER:            2.45            11.87
OR:             78.26           151.62
AgR:            40072.04        10146.45

Bitswap:        291472/292352           4/4

Total time = 47 days 21 hours 16 min 56 sec
FEC:            13807236                156
CRC:            1792            13
ES:             5136            14
SES:            18              0
UAS:            70              60
LOS:            1               0
LOF:            7               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 15 minutes time = 1 min 56 sec
FEC:            181             0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            3325            0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 1 day time = 21 hours 16 min 56 sec
FEC:            331423          6
CRC:            36              1
ES:             16              1
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:            257067          5
CRC:            5               1
ES:             3               1
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Since Link time = 44 days 10 hours 6 min 31 sec
FEC:            13807236                156
CRC:            1792            13
ES:             893             13
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
NTR: mipsCntAtNtr=0 ncoCntAtNtr=0

I don't really understand the differences, any comments would be much appreciated.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2018, 09:35:17 AM by hushcoden »
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spring

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Re: Comparing VMG1312-B10A with Vigor 2760
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2018, 11:12:28 PM »

well the zyxel stats
Code: [Select]
Latest 1 day time = 21 hours 16 min 56 sec
FEC:            331423          6
CRC:            36              1
ES:             16              1
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:            257067          5
CRC:            5               1
ES:             3               1
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0

less errors on the zyxel but leave it for a week and see how the 7th day is on the vigor, although the vmg1312 should have less errors because of its inline filter

the confusing thing about the vigor stats is that the last few stats are inverted [left upstream, right downstream]

decimally higher attentuation on the zyxel and slightly less attainable sync is because of inline filter but you need it. if 40/10 isn't your package the vigor can set a lower target db if the errors are similar to the zyxel and 40/10 isn't your package

but wait 7 days and see


zyxel shows the line R: DS-10  US-16  error resilience that always works, also on fastpath. the vigor shows R: 16  16    so that's better

if 40/10 is your package and setting 9db target on the vigor is possible and maintains the sync speed then you might prefer the vigor for 40/10 & might be able to fastpath [zyxel/broadcom can't set target on eci cabs]


edit: the zyxel having some CRC and ES on the downstream is related to the lack of R: 16, so the zyxel is a far better modem despite those errors. but the same reason for this [ECI cab] it's worth testing the 9db or 12db target if recommended according to the 7 days' adsl info --stats
« Last Edit: July 04, 2018, 12:44:15 AM by spring »
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No one knows what is the taste of the void.

hushcoden

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Re: Comparing VMG1312-B10A with Vigor 2760
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2018, 09:37:03 PM »

Thanks spring, much appreciated, so let's see after a week how stats will be...

Is there a way to go fastpath on downstream ?
« Last Edit: July 05, 2018, 09:39:15 PM by hushcoden »
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j0hn

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Re: Comparing VMG1312-B10A with Vigor 2760
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2018, 11:03:25 PM »

Is there a way to go fastpath on downstream ?

I usually suggest people cap their sync a little lower, reducing errors. This usually makes DLM remove interleaving and return the line to fastpath.

You must have a pretty noisy line because you're already technically capped being on the 40Mb package with an attainable in the 70's.

You could still try capping the line for 8-10 days and see if that does the trick. If ES (and imo FEC) numbers are low enough DLM will return the line to fastpath.

The command to cap the line on the Zyxel is

Code: [Select]
adsl configure --maxDataRate 35000 10000 100000

That would cap the line at 35Mb down, 10Mb up. The last figure can be left as 100000 whatever cap you set.

If ES are high enough you may find the line just goes straight back to being interleaved a couple days after removing the cap. Some lines just can't hold fastpath with the DLM thresholds.

It would matter who the ISP is too. Different ISP's use different DLM profiles.
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BT FTTC 55/10 ECI now Huawei cab
Zyxel VMG1312-B10A bridge mode with 1508 MTU + Asus RT-AC68U running Asuswrt-Merlin

hushcoden

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Re: Comparing VMG1312-B10A with Vigor 2760
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2018, 08:06:18 AM »

Thanks j0hn, and indeed I did try to cap the line with the ZyXEL, DLM removed the interleaving but then after 4 days it went back to interleave again, so yes my line must be pretty 'noisy'...

So I reckon that in my case both modems would be fine to use with no real differences, right? At least in terms of sync they look the same...
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spring

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Re: Comparing VMG1312-B10A with Vigor 2760
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2018, 10:42:42 AM »

Lantiqs have a few miliseconds lower latency on ECI cabs [8-3 = 5ms,  :fingers:]

Quote
So I reckon that in my case both modems would be fine to use with no real differences, right? At least in terms of sync they look the same...
if 12db target syncs at 40/10 it would be better than the zyxel, in case it doesn't then you can test 9db for fun
« Last Edit: July 06, 2018, 10:49:01 AM by spring »
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Ixel

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Re: Comparing VMG1312-B10A with Vigor 2760
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2018, 12:31:47 PM »

Lantiqs have a few miliseconds lower latency on ECI cabs [8-3 = 5ms,  :fingers:]
if 12db target syncs at 40/10 it would be better than the zyxel, in case it doesn't then you can test 9db for fun

Since the target SNRM offset doesn't go beyond 50 (+5.0 dB) and assuming the default target SNRM is 6 dB then the highest target SNRM they can achieve would be 11 dB. The lower latency is another reason I prefer using a Lantiq chipset on both my lines.
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hushcoden

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Re: Comparing VMG1312-B10A with Vigor 2760
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2018, 11:24:37 AM »

Lantiqs have a few miliseconds lower latency on ECI cabs [8-3 = 5ms,  :fingers:]
Sorry spring, where do you see in the stats a 5ms latency ?
The command to cap the line that I used with the ZyXEL doesn't work with the Vigor 2760, do Lantiq based modems have the same feature?
Also, is anybody aware of a guide for a Vigor 2760 similar to the one that it's on this forum for the ZyXELs - https://kitz.co.uk/routers/zyxel_VMG8324-B10A_bridge.htm ? I'd like to be able to redirect all WAN traffic into one LAN port...
« Last Edit: July 07, 2018, 01:35:55 PM by hushcoden »
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Ixel

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Re: Comparing VMG1312-B10A with Vigor 2760
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2018, 03:05:20 PM »

Sorry spring, where do you see in the stats a 5ms latency ?
The command to cap the line that I used with the ZyXEL doesn't work with the Vigor 2760, do Lantiq based modems have the same feature?
Also, is anybody aware of a guide for a Vigor 2760 similar to the one that it's on this forum for the ZyXELs - https://kitz.co.uk/routers/zyxel_VMG8324-B10A_bridge.htm ? I'd like to be able to redirect all WAN traffic into one LAN port...

Lantiq/Infineon chipset modems work differently. There are supposedly commands to cap/band a connection but I believe they remain unknown on how to configure them, however usually the preferred way is to adjust the target SNRM offset (locs) between -50 to 50 (which is equivalent to -5.0 dB to +5.0 dB). As for the latency, I've found that my connection has up to a 2ms reduced latency if I use a Lantiq/Infineon chipset modem (connected to an ECI DSLAM) compared to if I use a Broadcom chipset modem. I can compare this with the CQM graph.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2018, 03:10:58 PM by Ixel »
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hushcoden

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Re: Comparing VMG1312-B10A with Vigor 2760
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2018, 09:25:23 PM »

Thanks Ixel, I will let the line stabilise for a few more days and then I will start playing with it...
Are you using a Vigor 2x60 by any chance? I am really struggling to understand (after putting it in bridge mode) if and how to configure the modem to direct the all the WAN traffic on to one LAN port only (like the guide for the ZyXELs)...
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Ixel

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Re: Comparing VMG1312-B10A with Vigor 2760
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2018, 12:05:07 AM »

I am using the 2860 and 2862 for my two lines. I use bridge mode on them both, however I don't designate a specific LAN port for the purpose. I simply use the first LAN port of each router which is then connected to my Firebrick. I use the last LAN port of each router to connect to the switch so my program can monitor the DSL statistics and if necessary take action by adjusting the target SNRM offset for the downstream.
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hushcoden

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Re: Comparing VMG1312-B10A with Vigor 2760
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2018, 06:45:35 PM »

By the way, I did contact tech support and they told me that I can't set up the router that way nor there is the possibility to disable a LAN port (only the 2860 can), what a shame...
Also, I got a re-sync last night and for some reason the interleave became fastpath  ::) how did it happen ??
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