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Author Topic: Need advice, possible fault  (Read 3210 times)

Ixel

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Re: Need advice, possible fault
« Reply #45 on: July 11, 2018, 02:24:51 PM »

Ugh, I thought the problem was gone but I had a couple of loss of syncs this afternoon again, not too long after emailing AAISP to request a DLM reset from TTB (which is pointless if there's still a fault). At one point my connection synced with normal downstream speed but only 0.5mbps upstream. I've changed the modem cable from a 'high quality' cable to a cheapy spare flat RJ11 cable, but I highly doubt that's the reason.

Prior to that I did a line test on CIX twice, first time it came back 'Test Inconclusive - Further Diagnostics Required - raise Trouble Report with OR' with a fault location 'DT' and asking me to do another test. Second time it says 'Line test OK. Dial tone OK'. I'm not sure what I can do at this point as I fear this is an intermittent fault that's just playing tricks with me. I'm waiting to see what AA suggest next.

This is what my connection looked like when it resynced during the problem again, until I resynced it with a change of RJ11 cable:
https://imgur.com/a/sKhShb9

This is what my connection looked like after I resynced it again with a change of RJ11 cable, and generally what it looks like prior to the problem occurring (other than DLM banding and interleaving):
https://imgur.com/a/IQke66h

Line test results:


On one final note, I did notice last night that my BT handsets lit up and for a second said "line cord error" (aka no phone line) then went back to normal. Broadband however seemed unaffected by that brief blip.

I hope this fault isn't going to be a complicated one to fix.

EDIT: AAISP have got back to me and said it does look like there's a fault on the copper side, and could try forcing an engineer out. I don't know if this would be an SFI engineer but I assume it may well be. I'm waiting to hear for an appointment. Fingers crossed they will find something conclusive and it won't require multiple engineer callouts before something is eventually found (like before at my old address).

This reminds me of my old address all over again :D, just perhaps in a bit of a different way this time.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2018, 03:28:57 PM by Ixel »
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Ixel

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Re: Need advice, possible fault
« Reply #46 on: July 12, 2018, 05:01:53 PM »

An engineer is coming out tomorrow afternoon, presumably an SFI engineer as AAISP requested it via TTB and only the FTTC is with them (not the line rental). Fingers crossed they can identify a fault and not leave it as "right when tested". Others in the house keep telling me every so often that some phone calls appear to be doing some unusual things (crackling or periodic faint/disappearing audio) and it seems to happen more so in the afternoon apparently. Oddly I don't notice it most times when trying the QLT.

DLM also intervened again today by what looks like increasing the INP/delay to possibly INP 8 / 16ms on the downstream while maintaining the upstream at INP 4 / delay 8ms. SNRM/attainable rate decreases a little whenever a phone call is made or received, approximately 0.5Mbps downstream and 1.0Mbps upstream is lost until the phone call has ended.

Going by my current DSL estimate I'm now also below the impacted low estimate for the downstream by a few megabits and very close to the impacted handback threshold. Upstream is also below the impacted low estimate by roughly a megabit.

I'll have biscuits and a cappuccino on standby (proper coffee beans as I have a superb coffee machine hehe, just like it's made at a coffee shop) :).
« Last Edit: July 12, 2018, 05:05:05 PM by Ixel »
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Ixel

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Re: Need advice, possible fault
« Reply #47 on: July 19, 2018, 11:56:36 PM »

Assuming anyone's keeping up with the thread, just posting an update.

An SFI engineer visited last Friday, it's one I met last year (the first one). He found a HR fault on his TDR, which he showed me, over a fairly short distance which he resolved. He preferred not to reset DLM and would rather allow DLM to slowly increase the banding etc. I thought the problem was resolved, but apparently there's still something strange happening intermittently.

See https://imgur.com/a/4dTJvxX - A graph of my downstream errored seconds and a spectrogram of the audio file I recorded, however not during when I was getting these errored seconds. Next time I will record one if I catch the downstream errored seconds jumping upwards all of a sudden again. I've put some descriptions below the images there.

As far as I know the downstream's true INP and delay is 6 / 16ms, although the DrayTek reports it as 3 / 9ms. I've known the DrayTek to for some reason display the downstream INP incorrectly (half what it really is). This is possibly something to do with DrayTek modems I guess.

Audio file I recorded: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wqPv9In2GyJ7QCOhZMQx-8hexJM_q8fq/view?usp=sharing

AAISP are still monitoring the line. The rapid re-syncs aren't occurring at the moment at least. I also had a sudden drop in the attainable rate for downstream and upstream during one 15 minute sample.

Any opinions welcome, e.g. on the audio file or graphs.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 12:18:17 AM by Ixel »
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j0hn

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Re: Need advice, possible fault
« Reply #48 on: July 20, 2018, 12:36:40 PM »

Quote
He preferred not to reset DLM and would rather allow DLM to slowly increase the banding etc.

He would have been told to shove that suggestion where the sun don't shine.

Never in a million years would I smile and nod at the suggestion from an engineer that they are leaving me banded after fixing a fault on their side of the NTE5.

You're more patient/polite than me that's for sure.
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Ixel

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Re: Need advice, possible fault
« Reply #49 on: July 20, 2018, 12:39:09 PM »

Bingo. I'm waiting to see what they say but it appears AAISP's test ran by one of the staff has caught the fault red handed.

Code: [Select]
Test Description = Copper fault found possibly affecting GEA services. Continue submitting trouble report.
Diagnostic Code = GTC_FTTC_SERVICE_1503, Sync Status = Out Of Sync, NTE Power Status = Unknown
Down Sync = 0Mbps, Up Sync = 0Mbps
REIN = Not Detected, Bridge Tap = Not Detected
Test Outcome = Fail, Main Fault Location = LN
Fault Report Advised = Y, Appointment Required = N

My own test via CIX however, for the line rental, indicated fault code 'CE' as 'dis one leg in network'.

I've also recorded the noise on the phone while it occurred, during an unsuccessful attempt to dial 17070 for a QLT. I think I now have a good amount of proof that there's an intermittent problem :).

Audio recording: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ioCajLMmh2Au7gsSmyF6qKWLnkKmad3y

---

He would have been told to shove that suggestion where the sun don't shine.

Never in a million years would I smile and nod at the suggestion from an engineer that they are leaving me banded after fixing a fault on their side of the NTE5.

You're more patient/polite than me that's for sure.

Next time I will be more forceful hehe.

---

EDIT: I've been advised by AAISP to report it via CIX. This means a line engineer will no doubt come out, test it and probably leave as RWT if the fault isn't present at the time (then a fee?). Ugh.

EDIT 2: Predictable. I raised the fault but got this response back: "Trouble Report is being progressed as a CDTA case". I imagine that means if they find nothing wrong with the QLT and whatever other basic tests they perform on the day then I'll get a 'right when tested' type of charge.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 01:12:54 PM by Ixel »
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burakkucat

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Re: Need advice, possible fault
« Reply #50 on: July 20, 2018, 05:00:03 PM »

Assuming anyone's keeping up with the thread, just posting an update.

Yes, your updates are being read (& considered).  :)
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Ixel

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Re: Need advice, possible fault
« Reply #51 on: July 20, 2018, 05:22:49 PM »

Yes, your updates are being read (& considered).  :)

:)

I'm honestly tempted to cancel the trouble report at the moment because it's a 'CDTA', but I guess I shouldn't as AAISP asked me to report it to the phone line provider (CIX). I believe it went to 'CDTA' because when I made the trouble report the fault no longer registered. The phone sounds normal at the moment and broadband for the moment on the troublesome line is behaving. I have a big fear that the engineer will turn up tomorrow morning, run a QLT and a pair quality test and find nothing wrong and then leave with me incurring a hefty charge.

I have an audio recording and other test results from both AAISP and CIX, as well as an Openreach reference number of the fault test from CIX, which both indicate there was a problem however, so maybe I can somehow convince the engineer. If I end up getting charged with no fault fixed on this occasion then I guess I might just have to wait until the fault significantly develops so that it's not intermittent, I'm certainly not going to risk two or more charges :P.
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burakkucat

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Re: Need advice, possible fault
« Reply #52 on: July 20, 2018, 06:30:44 PM »

I imported your above sound file into audacity and then played it. I had to set the output to 100% but after a visual and audible review, I am convinced that the recording has not captured any by-product of the defect.

Perhaps leaving it to "ripen" for another month or two might be the best course of action. It also might be worthwhile keeping A&A updated, especially the CDTA status . . . as they suggested that you make the report.
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Ixel

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Re: Need advice, possible fault
« Reply #53 on: July 20, 2018, 07:25:33 PM »

I imported your above sound file into audacity and then played it. I had to set the output to 100% but after a visual and audible review, I am convinced that the recording has not captured any by-product of the defect.

Perhaps leaving it to "ripen" for another month or two might be the best course of action. It also might be worthwhile keeping A&A updated, especially the CDTA status . . . as they suggested that you make the report.

Which sound file did you try? The first one sounds relatively normal, not really anything distinguishable. I posted a second one earlier today however which you can't even hear the dial tone properly or the automated voice from 17070, just some strange buzzing and such.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ioCajLMmh2Au7gsSmyF6qKWLnkKmad3y - Happened today when the fault initially was identified both by AAISP's GEA FTTC test and CIX's PSTN test.

True. I guess I'll leave the trouble report open as AAISP did advise I report it, and hope it doesn't involve around 150 pounds. If it does then I'll just have to wait until the problem gets worse until one day the line will eventually stop working indefinitely.

EDIT: After much consideration I've decided I'm going to cancel the trouble report. I will wait for the fault to occur again as I'm sure it will at some point and then report it in the hope that the trouble report's own test will also register a fault and as such not submit it as a CDTA with the risk of a hefty charge if no fault is found by the engineer. I know this is probably not what AAISP wants me to do but I'm simply not prepared to take such a gamble. There's a chance the fault should re-occur within the next couple of days again if it follows a similar occurring pattern somewhat.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 08:01:48 PM by Ixel »
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burakkucat

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Re: Need advice, possible fault
« Reply #54 on: July 20, 2018, 08:02:29 PM »

I posted a second one earlier today however which you can't even hear the dial tone properly or the automated voice from 17070, just some strange buzzing and such.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ioCajLMmh2Au7gsSmyF6qKWLnkKmad3y - Happened today when the fault initially was identified both by AAISP's GEA FTTC test and CIX's PSTN test.

Ah, I missed that one.  :-[  I hear the sounds of an intermittent earth contact fault, coupled with that of an HR or semi-conductive fault. From your description, along with what I do not hear, it appears that the above fault is also coupled with significant loop loss.

I am convinced that there is an intermittent fault but would not like to be the person tasked to find and fix it.  :no:
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Ixel

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Re: Need advice, possible fault
« Reply #55 on: July 20, 2018, 08:12:50 PM »

Ah, I missed that one.  :-[  I hear the sounds of an intermittent earth contact fault, coupled with that of an HR or semi-conductive fault. From your description, along with what I do not hear, it appears that the above fault is also coupled with significant loop loss.

I am convinced that there is an intermittent fault but would not like to be the person tasked to find and fix it.  :no:

I seem to be the bearer of difficult phone line faults :D. Indeed I wouldn't want to be the engineer either! I've told AAISP of my intentions and hopefully they will understand my reasoning behind cancelling the trouble report with CIX. I've configured my AAISP account to email and text me regarding line up/down events, so I'll hopefully be alerted when there's potentially a problem again and then hopefully act quick enough to get the trouble report to also successfully identify a fault as part of its notes.
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Weaver

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Re: Need advice, possible fault
« Reply #56 on: July 23, 2018, 08:46:02 AM »

If I remember correctly, you can get AA to arrange for their staff to pick up line-down events, with certain conditions presumably, and act on them. I can not for the life of me remember where I saw thus mentioned though.
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Ixel

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Re: Need advice, possible fault
« Reply #57 on: July 23, 2018, 09:12:16 AM »

If I remember correctly, you can get AA to arrange for their staff to pick up line-down events, with certain conditions presumably, and act on them. I can not for the life of me remember where I saw thus mentioned though.

Indeed, and this would probably be helpful if the line rental is with them but sadly it's not :(. I can't have the line rental with them as it means the landline phone calls would have to be VoIP and some people here (not myself) prefer having a landline the traditional/common way ::). I have however setup the account to notify me via email and SMS as to when the line goes down and up, which is handy.

Sadly this fault is a tricky beast to catch. The last two occasions where there's been instability the PSTN line test via CIX's control panel has come back as 'LTOK', which I guess means the fault wasn't bad enough on those occasions to be picked up by that test. I have two Openreach reference numbers of past tests which have failed, stating the fault location as CE and the reason as 'dis one leg in network'. AAISP's GEA FTTC test, which they ran on one occasion when they saw re-syncing happening, also indicated a fault, however that said fault location as LN.

Fun times with an intermittent fault ???. Maybe if this continues for much longer and remains as difficult to catch then they may send another engineer, presumably SFI, as an escalated case. I'm not so confident they will do so (understandably) as this was identified on two occasions as a voice fault and not specific to broadband. My line is currently heavily interleaved (possibly D/U INP8/delay16 / INP4/delay8), still re-syncing a few times usually daily, getting some ES or possibly even SES sometimes, is almost under the handback threshold for the current 'impacted' estimate and finally is under the 'low' estimates for 'impacted'.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2018, 09:18:15 AM by Ixel »
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Ixel

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Re: Need advice, possible fault
« Reply #58 on: July 24, 2018, 10:59:14 AM »

No significant progress sadly, AAISP are now closing the fault their side which is understandable since it's a matter between me and the line rental provider. Unfortunately the line test results are coming up as LTOK at the moment, despite the FTTC/VDSL2 connection remaining heavily interleaved (D/U INP8/delay16 INP4/delay8) and now also under the impacted low estimates. It is still re-syncing at least once, or sometimes a few times, every morning between 8am and 10am. I imagine this is due to the outside temperature rising.

If I've not had much luck getting this resolved in a few weeks from now then I might consider cancelling the broadband on the intermittently faulty line as it's somewhat underperforming (high latency and a fair drop in speed).

I had the idea of ordering a new line but that brings a few issues:
- My current drop wire from the pole only has two pairs which are both in use
- I don't want a third master socket on my wall

My other idea was to transfer the PSTN line rental to AAISP and if possible convert my current landline into a number over their VoIP service, then AAISP are responsible for getting the line fault fixed instead of CIX. Some people here prefer the traditional way of making and receiving calls however, not over VoIP, so it might take a bit of convincing even if that's a worthwhile option to consider.

Any thoughts?
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vic0239

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Re: Need advice, possible fault
« Reply #59 on: July 24, 2018, 12:16:05 PM »

I ported my BT number over to AAISP and the process went very smoothly although it took some time. Before I started the transfer I took a VoIP number from them to "experiment" with the setup etc. so the reconfiguration at my end was easy, no surprises on the day. I use a Gigaset N300A, so the AAISP line could be selected instead of the Fixed Line when making calls. At the end of the day there is no perceived difference between the two services in terms of making a call with the N300.
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