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Author Topic: ADSL2 line problems  (Read 4656 times)

kitz

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Re: ADSL2 line problems
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2018, 10:40:04 PM »

It's hard to tell because of the scaling,  you may be right about the pattern but to the naked eye they seemed around every 50 tones.
Looking at the raw data is the only way to confirm, but when I zoomed in a bit on the graph they appear to be ~

110   
127   
188   
192
244
292
347

One of them will be the pilot tone
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konrado5

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Re: ADSL2 line problems
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2018, 10:42:12 PM »

It seems to me that I've seen something similar on some graphs on this forum. I think there are some tones disabled on DSLAM.
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kitz

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Re: ADSL2 line problems
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2018, 10:53:37 PM »

I've seen blocks of tones disabled many times  - usually at the end of the adsl2+ range.     I've never seen interspaced tones disabled on the DSLAM like that though - certainly not in the UK.

g3uiss is quite local to me (& iirc same ISP) and I'm not aware of Openreach/BTw doing any ham/radio blocking in this area.    We're not even near any large transmitters, so it would have to be something more localised to him.



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kitz

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Re: ADSL2 line problems
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2018, 11:10:04 PM »

PS

If g3uiss has a few mins to spare & nothing better to do, it may be interesting to compare those missing tones raw data with bit allocation on the VDSL line to see if it does affect both.   
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burakkucat

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Re: ADSL2 line problems
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2018, 11:15:52 PM »

Could a navigational beacon (or other aid) account for the QLN blip?

As for the zero bit loading, one would certainly be due to the pilot tone . . . but I can't remember which frequency that would be.
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konrado5

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Re: ADSL2 line problems
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2018, 11:23:11 PM »

Pilot tone have 2-bit loading on ADSL2+. Here is example on my circuit.
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kitz

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Re: ADSL2 line problems
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2018, 12:25:25 AM »

Could a navigational beacon (or other aid) account for the QLN blip?

~230 is clean here so wouldn't have thought so.   My guess would be something in direct neighbourhood.   
Whatever it is, it's only costing 2 bits in the bin so ~8kbps.   As long as its static and not being a nuisance by causing lots of bitswap (check bitswap graph) at around that tone then its not worth losing sleep over.

Quote
As for the zero bit loading, one would certainly be due to the pilot tone . . . but I can't remember which frequency that would be.

Not much point remembering.   Once upon a time it used to be tone 64.  Now it varies, which is why I commented a rather vague "one of them".  :/
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kitz

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Re: ADSL2 line problems
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2018, 12:39:12 AM »

Pilot tone have 2-bit loading on ADSL2+. Here is example on my circuit.

Tone varies depending on numerous things.    It's not even SP dependent... for example yours are ~tone 420, which would be perfectly useless for those lines who can't get more than ~17Mbps.    Also isn't that in the range that your ISP has DSLAM blocked for 99% of their other users.

I love your graph.   Perfect example of how crosstalk also affects ADSL2+. 
Can clearly see the effects from those who only get ~8Mbps, then that lovely bump at the end where you are the only user on the DSLAM with the unblocked tones. 
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konrado5

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Re: ADSL2 line problems
« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2018, 01:03:49 AM »

Pilot tone is selected by CPE. I have slightly different pilot tone on different synchronization.
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g3uiss

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Re: ADSL2 line problems
« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2018, 07:23:07 PM »

PS

If g3uiss has a few mins to spare & nothing better to do, it may be interesting to compare those missing tones raw data with bit allocation on the VDSL line to see if it does affect both.

The only tone with 0 bit loading is 328 on the VDSL circuit, so its not common to both. The single noise blip is exactly the same on both circuits. I suspect its just an anomaly.

All that said, ISP said they would reset the profile in an effort to sort it, hoping to avoid a visit (difficult for personal reasons to available for either full AM or PM time slots) .

Result:- DS SNR now at 6.1 US SNR now at 12.6 Interleave on US & DS at 8 delay Inp on US only at 2.

So now I'm worse off than ever. I'm awaiting their next update. Iv'e just turned on uploading to put current stats at www.west-lodge.com/adsl/index.htm

@Kitz is right, no radio stuff in this area (Nearest is HMS site which I think is very LF comms)

Not really worried about that single spike as commented it has little effect.

Thanks for all the input

Tony
« Last Edit: June 19, 2018, 07:50:09 PM by g3uiss »
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boost

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Re: ADSL2 line problems
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2018, 10:17:12 PM »

Your encapsulation errors are through the roof. There's no point resetting the profile, lol. You'll be interleaved before long, I guess.

Turn the VDSL modem off for 24 hours.
Power cycle the ADSL modem. Let's see if your prolific error rate persists?
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g3uiss

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Re: ADSL2 line problems
« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2018, 10:32:29 PM »

Hi @boost. Please explain encapsulation errors. The two services have run togeater for around 5 years ?

Only started after phone problems with water in the DP

Tony
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g3uiss

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Re: ADSL2 line problems
« Reply #27 on: June 20, 2018, 03:57:23 PM »

Could a navigational beacon (or other aid) account for the QLN blip?

As for the zero bit loading, one would certainly be due to the pilot tone . . . but I can't remember which frequency that would be.

The nearest beacon is an NDB which operates on 318 kHz.

Itís low power supposed to have a range of 15 miles, but thatís optimistic and around that distance from me in a straight line.

I think whatever is local and on 24/7. But as said the effect is minimal.
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kitz

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Re: ADSL2 line problems
« Reply #28 on: June 21, 2018, 02:47:18 AM »

Pilot tone is selected by CPE. I have slightly different pilot tone on different synchronization.

There's different methods.   Static, determined within a range by the SP, set random within a range... or adaptive which can depend on line analysis and can also change when either the CPE or DSLAM detects that there is too much noise on that tone.   

Number of pilot tones depends on amount of data transmitted by the pilot tone and if bitswap is in use.     

Was just trying to keep it simple by saying its no longer worthwhile trying to remember them and why I used the term 'varies' and 'one will be' because we are unsure which method the DSLAM will be using.   At one point TT's MSAN's appeared to be using 'random within range'   Openreach/BTw use several different makes of DSLAMs/MSANs so I don't know which method is being used in this particular case. :/
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kitz

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Re: ADSL2 line problems
« Reply #29 on: June 21, 2018, 02:56:11 AM »

Quote
So now I'm worse off than ever. I'm awaiting their next update. Iv'e just turned on uploading to put current stats at www.west-lodge.com/adsl/index.htm

Just had a look.   Those missing tones are still there in the same place. 
Considering Interleaving is now switched on, its done absolutely nothing to help.     
In fact if anything, your CRC's and Err Secs appear to have increased and you've also had some SES errors.  :(   Lower SNRM is noted.

:'(
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