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[highpriest]

i can usually find an ISP that can give some of those requirements, but never all of them, and almost none at that price point regardless of requirements.

Not quite at that price point but I get all of that with Zen for £36 a month (line rental included). Static IP is included for free.

[chenks]

the crucial part there is (line rental included) which can't be part of any deal that i have.
also don't know how you've got it at that price from Zen, as their listed price for 80/20 with line rental is £43.99
your £36pm is most likely 40/10

broadband only from Zen 80/20 is £34 (for first year then increasing to £37pm). as you can see quite a price difference compared to plusnet. and i don't value IPv6 support at an extra £14-£17pm.

[highpriest]

your £36pm is most likely 40/10

80/20.

Code: [Select]

# xdslcmd info
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 1
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 23414 Kbps, Downstream rate = 87596 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 79999 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps

It was through this deal.

https://blog.thebigdeal.com/faqs-broadband-deal-zen/

[chenks]

still £16pm per month more than what i pay, and i don't value IPv6 support at £16pm extra even with line rental included (which can't be part of any deal i take).
also, at the time i was looking Zen weren't getting particulary good reviews, but that was irrelevant as the price was out of the question.

[Chrysalis]

Well you get what you pay for, plusnet are budget orientated now and is pushing more of a no frills service now days, ipv4 only fits into that philosophy.

[chenks]

indeed, that's why i said i didn't value IPv6 at £16pm extra.

[highpriest]

indeed, that's why i said i didn't value IPv6 at £16pm extra.

Can't be that much, surely? You must be paying someone for line rental?

[chenks]

line rental is paid, but not by me, hence the separation of services.

[Weaver]

@Chrysalis giving a /56 to a single LAN? I have assumed that some kit would freak out at that, believing that the only possibility was a /64. Mind you, if that were the case, then you could just override it and tell the devices that it was a /64 anyway. But is their network addressing dynamic ? If so, you would not be able to override it with a different statically configured value.

[renluop]

line rental is paid, but not by me, hence the separation of services.

And the payer will only deal with BT, for what ever reason?

[Chrysalis]

@Chrysalis giving a /56 to a single LAN? I have assumed that some kit would freak out at that, believing that the only possibility was a /64. Mind you, if that were the case, then you could just override it and tell the devices that it was a /64 anyway. But is their network addressing dynamic ? If so, you would not be able to override it with a different statically configured value.

sky assign a /56 but the kit sets up a /64 on the LAN.

[chenks]

And the payer will only deal with BT, for what ever reason?

not BT necessarily, but line rental and broadband to remain separate bills.
the whole bundled services market is really quite anti-consumer, as you are almost forced into putting all your services with one company, if you don't then you get penalised in price. the bundled services idea is being used against the customer when it was supposed to be a gain for the customer.

it's really quite a bad idea to have all your eggs in one basket really.

[DaveC]

Regarding the discussion of IPv6 assignments,  the IETF stopped recommending that all end-users get a /48 in 2011 - see RFC6177. 

However, I don't think any UK ISP would run out of IPv6 addresses even if they did all continue giving each customer a /48.

IIUC, RIPE reserve a /29 for each ISP (8 /32s), and assign them the first of those /32s automatically.  To get the others, the ISP just needs to ask for them.  A /29 is over half a million /48s - far more than the "niche" ISPs like A&A or IDNET (and probably even Zen) will ever need.

But if they ever did run out, they can just request more - e.g. BT has a /22 assignment (2a00:2000::/22), which is over 67 million /48s.

Also, A&A give one /48 per "customer".  Each customer can have many services (at different sites), and then via A&A's control panel allocate /60s or /56s from their overall /48 to that service.

So yes, a /48 is "wasteful", but the ipv6 address space is big.  Vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big.  It's designed to be wasteful.


But what annoys me most about IPv6 is that the mainstream ISPs are allocating dynamic IPv6 prefixes - a lot of the potential of devices having globally routable addresses is lost if those addresses are not permanent.  It's a big opportunity thrown away.

[Weaver]

@DaveC couldn't agree more about dynamic addresses. I was going to say that it is stupid, but in fa t it is probably just evil greed so that they can charge more for static address blocks at the cost of messing up things generally.

[Chrysalis]

The constraint may be an underestimation of the amount of ISP's needing to fill those very generous /22 allocations.

http://eradman.com/library/is_the_ipv6_address_space_too_small_.pdf

This guy predicts in a decade or so we will be force to make ip version 6.1 with a smaller device identifier to allow for more prefixes to be generated.

@Weaver maybe with BT, as they do with static IPv4, but probably not with sky who dont offer static ipv6 at all regardless of what you pay and dont sell business broadband.  Sky were asked about their dynamic prefixing and their engineer replied they did it to make managing their network easier without having to commit specific prefixes to specific parts of their network. 
For the vast majority of home users, a static ip assignment is not really required for anything.  The benefits of it are it makes tracking internet usage far easier, so e.g. law enforcement would love for everyone to have static ip's, with internet routable ip's been assigned to individual devices on ipv6, those benefits further increase because on ipv4, the isp can log which customer has which ip for a specific time, but they cannot log which device has which ipv6 without having their own ways of identifying those devices, however to further complicate matters we have privacy features which e.g. windows utilises by default that will rotate ipv6 on the device which negates the second advantage I mentioned. 
Websites like kitz who may want to ban specific ip's this becomes far easier if home users have static ip addresses, web admin's dont need to worry if multiple people share an ip or if its dynamic and then the ban becomes a false positive.
The other advantages are more for home workers like myself or businesses so static ip's are great for ACL's, and we got the good old hosting content from home, I have never been a fan of people doing hosting from home, I dont see it as proper use of a consumer broadband connection, but regardless even tho today hosting is really cheap, people continue to persist with hosting from home, and as such its a driver for static ip's.

Generally I do agree with you that really isp's should be pushing for static deployments, but I dont think if its dynamic it just breaks things, it just negates certain advantages that were expected with ipv6 deployment. Sky think they have an acceptable middle ground with a week long DHCP expiry, so basically to lose your prefix your router has to be powered down for at least a week.  However sometimes network resegmentations will lose your prefix regardless of router downtime, I lost my first sky prefix in Feb earlier this year.  I can understand DHCP been used to simplify end user router configuration, but they probably should be using sticky DHCP allocations, if network work is carried out that risks prefixes been moved, there should also be a policy its only done if there is no solution to avoid it.