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Author Topic: Cable ISP Virgin Media Start UK Customer Trial of IPv6 Addresses  (Read 848 times)

Bowdon

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https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2018/06/cable-isp-virgin-media-start-uk-customer-trial-of-ipv6-addresses.html

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Cable broadband and TV operator Virgin Media has this week begun sending out “confidential” invites to what appears to be their first official customer trial of the IPv6 internet addressing standard, which until now has only been tested internally by the company’s staff (plus the occasional unexpected subscriber).

The trial itself is expected to last for 4 weeks and, as previously reported on ISPreview.co.uk, it will harness the recently purchased Benu Networks’ IPv6 Dual-Stack (DS-Lite) solution in order to “provide a seamless migration to IPv6 in the UK“. This is being conducted alongside ARRIS, which of course makes Virgin Media’s Hub 3.0 (TG2492S/CE) router (no prizes for guessing that this trial is only for Hub 3.0 users).

On top of that there will be a few other caveats for those who join the new community trial. Firstly, modem mode will need to be disabled on your Hub 3.0. Secondly, Virgin’s Web Safe internet filter (Parental Controls) must also be switched off (we assume this won’t be necessary once the final solution is deployed) and the operator has warned that some native IPv4 kit may not work (well it is a trial, so expect bugs).

This will be an interesting experiment, especially the part about DS-Lite that when last tried in Germany threw up a lot of complaints. There was a thread about ds-lite a few months ago all about that. I looked in to it quite a lot but never found anyone with a solution, unless it meant moving away from the German ISP that used it. I think the problem mostly caused trouble for people using online game servers.

Edit: found the thread: https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,21103.0.html
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Chrysalis

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Re: Cable ISP Virgin Media Start UK Customer Trial of IPv6 Addresses
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2018, 08:45:07 PM »

So it is actually using DS-Lite, this is going to be interesting.

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IPv6 packets originated by hosts in the subscriber’s home network are transported natively over the access network.

The DS-Lite carrier-grade NAT translates IPv4-to-IPv4 addresses to multiple subscribers through a single global IPv4 address. Overlapping address spaces used by subscribers are disambiguated through the identification of tunnel endpoints. One concentrator can be the endpoint of multiple softwires.

The IPv4 packets originated by the end hosts have private (and possibly overlapping) IP addresses. Therefore, NAT must be applied to these packets. If end hosts have overlapping addresses, Network Address Port Translation (NAPT) is needed.

Using NAPT, the system adds the source address of the encapsulating IPv6 packet in the subscriber network to the inside IPv4 source address and port. Because each user’s IPv6 address is unique, the combination of the IPv6 source address with the IPv4 source address and port creates an unambiguous mapping.

The system takes the following actions when it receives a responding IPv4 packet from outside the subscriber network:

Encapsulates the IPv4 packet in an IPv6 packet using the mapped IPv6 address as the IPv6 destination address.
Forwards the packet to the user.

https://www.juniper.net/documentation/en_US/junos/topics/concept/ipv6-dual-stack-lite-overview.html
« Last Edit: June 07, 2018, 08:47:44 PM by Chrysalis »
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jelv

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Re: Cable ISP Virgin Media Start UK Customer Trial of IPv6 Addresses
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2018, 10:51:53 PM »

TalkTalk are working on IPv6 - see https://community.talktalk.co.uk/t5/General-Technology-Tips-Tricks/When-will-TalkTalk-support-IPv6/m-p/2040060#M17941

How many of the major ISPs does that leave who are not showing any signs of moving to provide IPv6 connectivity?
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Bowdon

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Re: Cable ISP Virgin Media Start UK Customer Trial of IPv6 Addresses
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2018, 11:02:29 PM »

I wonder if any of these isp's actually listen to feedback from their customers?

This is a thread about it from last year. I think they are germans, using different isp's but all the same problem, ds-lite. The thread is long with multiple people trying different things and nobody can fix it except asking their isp's to give them a proper ipv4 or changing isp.

https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/223866092

There is a full dual stack that fixes all this. Why are ISP's, who are in the business of networking, taking the cheaper option?

I sometimes think when problems arent in english they get swept under the carpet, or are more easily contained as we live in an english dominated media world. But I think if the problems on that thread are repeated by english speaking players it could be a PR disaster for whoever uses DS-Lite.

Update;

I'm not sure if the DS-Lite issue only hits the playstation console specifically as playstation have no ipv6 support. Maybe this is why this hasn't become a bigger issue so far.

So what we do know is when VM uses DS-Lite, any playstation owners will no longer be able to connect. There is currently no way around it, unless playstation give their console the ability to accept ipv6. When I recently bought an xbox one x I noticed immediately when setting up the network that it was ipv6 compatible. I don't understand why Sony hasn't made the PS4 compatible so far.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2018, 11:17:13 PM by Bowdon »
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Weaver

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Re: Cable ISP Virgin Media Start UK Customer Trial of IPv6 Addresses
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2018, 02:56:42 AM »

Madness. What is going to happen when the affected fraction of users realise the consequences?

I suspect that people are looking at this the wrong way. Pressure has to begin to be placed on content providers and server operators to start moving over to IPv6 now. Leaving it to ISPs alone is not enough. Hosting providers need to be pressurised so that they start to help out their customers to deploy IPv6 with no clue or minimal clue being required.

We don’t need years of chaos like this, with a double transition for clueless end users: into some crap like CG-NAT and then on to the real solution, who knows when.

People need to be told whether their ISP has any clue or not. A star system for clue for ISPs along the lines of ‘full access’ might be one aid.
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