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Author Topic: REIN REIN, go to Spain...  (Read 6415 times)

boozy

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REIN REIN, go to Spain...
« on: May 25, 2018, 07:41:38 PM »

I've had a few issues OpenReach visits, and I'm now down to one issue (although I stand to be corrected on that).  At approximately 7pm every evening something gifts me serious interference and remains until midnight from when it goes a bit random but interferes until between 7 and 9 in the morning.  I've bought myself a cheap and cheerful AM radio and tuned to 612Hz but can't really hear a difference before and after the problems happen.  I'm at a bit of a loss on how to proceed (apart from moving house).

I'll not go into the previous OpenReach pains, but the line is now running with a fair amount of retransmission relatively stably (compared to before).  I'm not sure if I'm a bit obsessive or should I just leave it alone now that I'm not getting thousands of CRCs and only having problems in the evening.

I've attached the QLN, HLog, the connection Stats FEC graphs (in the next post) before and after 7pm (note that the scale is a bit different)

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boozy

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Re: REIN REIN, go to Spain...
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2018, 07:44:23 PM »

The FEC errors (the record according to DSLStats is 186K per hour).

I've set up a ping, but it won't have enough data yet.   Theres a bit of data https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/quality/share/1ccc117f5e81a31c70252661b4eb8c96b848c0fc


Thanks in advance for any help  :fingers:
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ejs

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Re: REIN REIN, go to Spain...
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2018, 08:09:51 PM »

Is that it, a few million FEC a day? That's nothing. In fact I think the stats show it's working perfectly with zero uncorrected errors on the downstream!

All the error correction mechanisms are factored into determining what speed your line can manage by your modem. There's not really any point in having all this error correcting FEC and retransmission capabilities for it to never be used. Instead it aims to actually use the FEC and retransmission to give you more bandwidth at an acceptable uncorrected error rate.

Are you having any problems with your actual usage of the Internet connection, or do you think that you have a problem based only on those FEC graphs?
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boozy

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Re: REIN REIN, go to Spain...
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2018, 08:16:28 PM »

Thanks ejs - VOIP is pretty unusable, as you can tell from the packet loss on the ping graph (and important as there is no mobile signal indoors).  Ditto for anything real-time (kids have left the Xbox off for a long time) and I shy from working from home as presentations have a habit of glitching out.   I didn't know what would be useful information in all the graphs from DslStats, so if you can suggest anything - that would be good.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2018, 08:22:31 PM by boozy »
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Deathstar

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Re: REIN REIN, go to Spain...
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2018, 08:16:32 PM »

Do you have power line adaptors by any chance? If you do get them in the bin now!
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boozy

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Re: REIN REIN, go to Spain...
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2018, 08:21:28 PM »

No - powerlines are in the bin many years ago.  I've turned off the electric to everything apart from the sockets used for the internet (I even went as far as unplugging the beer fridge) and the graph continues in it's peaky way.  I am the last house on the electric line (and phone line) so it may be affected by that (or not... I don't know).
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burakkucat

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Re: REIN REIN, go to Spain...
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2018, 09:25:08 PM »

The Hlog plot is reasonable for a somewhat longish circuit.

The QLN plot . . . there's definitely something going on, it's trying to tell me something, but I can't put a paw upon it. The sinusoidal background, very evident in the DS3 band, is actually present in the DS2 & DS1 bands (if one looks closely and critically).  :-\

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Weaver

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Re: REIN REIN, go to Spain...
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2018, 03:54:04 AM »

How does one identify a good/bad-looking hlog graph?
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ejs

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Re: REIN REIN, go to Spain...
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2018, 06:56:46 AM »

There are some upstream CRC errors, but I'm not convinced there are enough to account for the described problems.

Perhaps try comparing ping results with different packet sizes:
Code: [Select]
ping -n 100 pingbox1.thinkbroadband.com
ping -n 100 -l 1400 pingbox1.thinkbroadband.com

If the problem is due to some sort of interference affecting the DSL, I would expect the packet loss to be higher for larger packets.
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johnson

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Re: REIN REIN, go to Spain...
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2018, 07:27:51 AM »

I agree ejs.

Those FEC graphs are nothing compared to my connection, I have a noisy fat line on my graphs somewhere between 3000 & 10000 FECs per minute, and experience no detectable packetloss.

The upstream CRCs are high though, 100s of errored seconds per day is not ideal. It seems pretty strange to me that upstream G.INP hasnt been applied, the cab is huawei right? Downstream G.INP seems to be on.

Whats the rest of the home network look like boozy? Unusable VoIP on a 63/12 connection is crazy... what router are you using? Does it have QoS? If you have xbox aged kids might they not be saturating your uplink with torrent clients constantly running?
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boozy

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Re: REIN REIN, go to Spain...
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2018, 11:28:34 AM »

@johnson - I've probably made the VOIP sound worse than it is.  I tend to use the phone for conferencing and have calls of one or two hours in length.  When on the calls there will be periods where it goes garbled (usually for the other end of the call i.e. I go garbled), so I sit outside with wifi on the phone turned off.  So for me VOIP isn't usable.

The home network has two access points, a Fritzbox upstairs at he east end of the house and an Asus DSL55U downstairs at the west end (that sounds posh - it's just an old long house with solid walls).  There are a few Netgear Switches and everything with an ethernet port is wired.  Kids had restricted internet access until recently (I did a factory reset on the Fritzbox and haven't put the restrictions back on yet). I don't think they are torrenting, mainly because they don't have anything which won't go to sleep in a few minutes.

It's now much better than it was - the question is, if it normally goes pear shaped at roughly 7pm each evening with a sudden spike of FECs, is that not likely to be REIN (It would likely be present on the QLN as the last reset was overnight).  How would I go about finding the source?

Looking at the Ping graph, it mostly behaved last night (I'm not sure I believe the packet loss it's reporting, I mostly see large ping times rather than loss - possibly the timeout is set at 500ms).

I've wandered about with an AM radio on 612Hz and while I can hear noise - I can't correlate it to ping or FEC.  I may also have an incorrect assumption that it's one device causing the problem.
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ejs

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Re: REIN REIN, go to Spain...
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2018, 12:02:40 PM »

The FEC rate increasing could be a red herring, 7pm could be when congestion starts to affect your exchange/node/ISP.
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boozy

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Re: REIN REIN, go to Spain...
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2018, 03:58:43 PM »

It's very well behaved this afternoon - no loss and no variance on ping, but TinkBroadband graph doesn't agree?!  I'll come back to it this evening.

I realised there has been a resync since the earlier QLN graph - it currently looks noisier, but has the same waves.  Would it be worth rebooting when everything seems good, to see if it has a different profile?
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boozy

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Re: REIN REIN, go to Spain...
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2018, 08:07:35 PM »

The pings have now changed for the longer one:
Code: [Select]
Pinging pingbox1.thinkbroadband.com [80.249.99.164] with 1400 bytes of data:
Reply from 80.249.99.164: bytes=1400 time=22ms TTL=58
Reply from 80.249.99.164: bytes=1400 time=22ms TTL=58
Reply from 80.249.99.164: bytes=1400 time=22ms TTL=58
Reply from 80.249.99.164: bytes=1400 time=345ms TTL=58
Reply from 80.249.99.164: bytes=1400 time=304ms TTL=58
Reply from 80.249.99.164: bytes=1400 time=344ms TTL=58
Reply from 80.249.99.164: bytes=1400 time=23ms TTL=58
Reply from 80.249.99.164: bytes=1400 time=138ms TTL=58
Reply from 80.249.99.164: bytes=1400 time=23ms TTL=58
Reply from 80.249.99.164: bytes=1400 time=22ms TTL=58

no packet loss, but larger variance.  Happened a few times in the last run.  Default packet size has a max of 30ms.
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boozy

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Re: REIN REIN, go to Spain...
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2018, 05:10:45 PM »

Sometimes it's good to talk - I was just asking one of the neighbours if they have anything on a timer starting at 7pm.  They hadn't but they do lose their internet connection and sometimes electricity at 7pm.  It's not bothering him overly as it's a business and he has some guard dogs so the security cameras aren't that important, but it is annoying him a bit.  Appears it's not just me having issues (although I'm not having it that bad).


I did a 24 hour FEC to SNR per tone graph and it again shows the FECs kicking in at 7pm.  The SNR graph is from the end of each FEC period - and there's combing evident after 7pm.  It's too big to attach so here's a link to it https://1drv.ms/u/s!AofPcWieuJD2tqdzgvUFkmGuoR5rXg.


I'm guessing he's nearer the source than me, so I will go down there this evening.
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