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Author Topic: Bonded line help  (Read 569 times)

meritez

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Re: Bonded line help
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2020, 10:31:46 AM »

I think I'm struggling with this as well. Is there really no other router that will bond two connections into one?

Mikrotik is worth considering, there are lengthy articles on the AAISP wiki about how to do it with 5 x ADSL Lines: https://support.aa.net.uk/RouterOS_bonding
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Weaver

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Re: Bonded line help
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2020, 12:15:53 PM »

Donít have one IPv4 address. Ask AA for as many as you need and cover your whole LAN with real addresses, so itís goodbye to the horrors of NAT.

The question about 5G is all down to the dongle models. Ask AA about particular dongle models. itís just that they have tested certain ones, thatís all. If one presents a compatible interface then it doesnít matter that itís 5G. It depends on whether or not you want to put an AA SIM in the dongle ; if itís an AA one then it will be 4G/3G.

Whatever router you use, AA will typically give you one IP for the routerís WAN i/f and then route the whole of your IP blocks through the router to your LAN. Thatís how my network works for IPv4; I have one address for the WAN-facing i/f of the Brick and a /26 for my LAN. IPv6 you just route one of your /64s say to you LAN and you can fiddle about with the routing using the knobs in AAís clueless.aa.net.uk server. Do ask AA about this. Theyíre extremely helpful.

Mikrotik are good. The advantage of an AA Firebrick is all the free support and the buck-stops here syndrome, any problem and itís always AAís fault. I wouldnít save money and experience more hassle, but thatís just me.

Iím pretty sure that Mikrotik would do what you want; ask them, but then youíll have a learning curve getting it set up and AA wonít be able to debug it for you. I had an either a Juniper or Cisco router secondhand (Iíve gone blank which as it was a long time ago) when I had two lines, and of course AA couldnít help me with it and I couldnít get it working properly so I bought a Firebrick instead which just worked instantly.
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: Bonded line help
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2020, 02:11:43 PM »

Thatís a good tip from DaveC. Alex has got this wrong :) ; afaik, thereís no need for a Ďstandardí, as bonding here isnít done with a protocol; it just distributes the IP packets between lines and thatís all there is to it, so there doesnít have to be a Firebrick at both ends.

What I meant by "standard" was a documented method that is compatible with stock Linux/BSD kernels (or at least documented patches) and standard routing/packet filtering.  From what you just said, that IS what they've done?

I understand why they push the Firebrick solution, they developed it specifically as a managed solution for businesses which is fair enough.  I take exception however at the lack of documentation for hobbyists.
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Weaver

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Re: Bonded line help
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2020, 04:16:05 PM »

The manuals for the Firebrick are on the website, so there is some documentation. Thereís also the support wiki. The manuals need a lot more work: they need example XML snippets or sometimes complete config file examples. Burrakucat goes mad about the manuals; do not set him off  ;)

If afraid Iím not following you Alex about the point about Ďstandardí and compatible with Linux kernels. Remember thereís no protocol here, itís just a stream of ordinary IP packets distributed over n links and nothing more; itís not like MLPPP or LACP, or multi link TCP, itís just pure IP only and the receiving end has no way to know that thereís anything funny going on, itís just pure, normal IP that theyíre receiving. Apologies if Iím being too dim here.  :(  Penny drops : you said Ďstandardí (adj.) ie = normal and I perhaps read that as Ďa standardí (noun) meaning a document?  :-[

They donít push the Firebrick solution as part of being an ISP: you can use anything you like and they have a support wiki where you can add more documentation and howtos for any kit you want. Itís just that they understand Firebricks so can directly support them and Firebrick Ltd is a joint venture of AAís with WatchFront. So on the other hand they are a Firebrick seller and sell kit to high-end home users, corporates, resellers and ISPs. Resellers offer managed service packages I presume.

Itís the Office::1 service which is a managed solution for business. They donít manage your Firebrick for you, they just will support you or configure it for you.

I might be going mad here, but I suspect that at the CPE end, you could just have two modems connected to two lines and connect them to a switch and then the IP packets from the two lines would just arrive in the LAN and youíd have double-speed downstream with no Firebrick at all, just no double-speed upstream. Is that right or am I going crackers?  ??? :-[
Can you do ECMP with a Linux box acting as a router?

Take a look at the docs and see what you think. I canít lend you one to play with as Iíve already given my FB2700 to another of our kitizens as I didnít need three Firebricks.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2020, 04:22:46 PM by Weaver »
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vic0239

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Re: Bonded line help
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2020, 05:50:46 PM »

I got a refurbished Firebrick from A&A at a reduced cost, when the power supply failed it was replaced at no cost to me. At the time of purchase I had two lines and wished to bond them and found the sample HTML on their support site was perfectly adequate to get it working. I do recall that some configuration on the Control Panel was necessary to route traffic down both lines, but this was self-explanatory. Iím no longer using the brick since I moved to FTTP, but do retain the configuration files for reference. I do agree with Weaver that the official manuals are hard work.
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: Bonded line help
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2020, 07:12:46 PM »

If afraid Iím not following you Alex about the point about Ďstandardí and compatible with Linux kernels. Remember thereís no protocol here, itís just a stream of ordinary IP packets distributed over n links and nothing more; itís not like MLPPP or LACP, or multi link TCP, itís just pure IP only and the receiving end has no way to know that thereís anything funny going on, itís just pure, normal IP that theyíre receiving. Apologies if Iím being too dim here.  :(  Penny drops : you said Ďstandardí (adj.) ie = normal and I perhaps read that as Ďa standardí (noun) meaning a document?  :-[

AFAIK on a IP network there is usually only ONE route to any destination, using multiple interfaces to reach the same destination is kinda none-standard.

You may be right about how incoming works, as presumably BGP takes care of the routing for that at the ISP side.  As you said though, the problem is determining which interface traffic going back to the other way uses.

Its those instructions I'm referring to when saying there is no documentation, exact details on how to configure the OS to do the packet delivery the same way the Firebrick is configured.  I'd be very tempted by their tunneling service if I could replicate bonding over it using my existing equipment, but its absolutely not worth the cost of a Firebrick to achieve it when I won't need it in 1-2 years time as I will be on FTTP.

There may be documentation, but if its Firebrick specific that's not really helpful.

I have OpenWRT routers and PCs coming out of my ears, it wouldn't be hard to dedicate one to doing this and just proxy any traffic I want going out that way, or re-route it from pfSense, although I'd hope this could be done entirely on pfSense itself.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2020, 07:16:37 PM by Alex Atkin UK »
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Pony1982

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Re: Bonded line help
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2020, 07:16:37 PM »

I might be going mad here, but I suspect that at the CPE end, you could just have two modems connected to two lines and connect them to a switch and then the IP packets from the two lines would just arrive in the LAN and youíd have double-speed downstream with no Firebrick at all, just no double-speed upstream. Is that right or am I going crackers?  ??? :-[

Thanks very much for all the help. Really useful. The quoted bit is key as far as I'm concerned. If I could double speeds using a standard routing setup, it'd help me out considerably. Question in that instance is - what does the FB give me, if I was purely using it to combine two lines.
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Weaver

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Re: Bonded line help
« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2020, 07:52:36 PM »

I have an FB2500, later got an FB2700 and more recently an Fb2900 and the FB2700 went to one of our forum members.
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burakkucat

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Re: Bonded line help
« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2020, 10:53:28 PM »

Burrakucat goes mad about the manuals; do not set him off  ;)

They are absolutely fine if you want to read a lecture on some aspect of networking but are close to near useless as to how to configure some aspect of the device to which they relate.  :-X
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Weaver

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Re: Bonded line help
« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2020, 11:24:05 PM »

Burakkucat speaks the truth. Luckily there is limitless free support if you get one from AA.
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Alex Atkin UK

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Re: Bonded line help
« Reply #25 on: November 24, 2020, 04:53:10 AM »

They are absolutely fine if you want to read a lecture on some aspect of networking but are close to near useless as to how to configure some aspect of the device to which they relate.  :-X

That's basically my problem with networking in general not just AA.  The documentation is either really simplistic and doesn't cover the detail you need, or its super detailed and impossible to understand as a human being.
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