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[grahamb]

So, some of you will be aware that I've had problems in the past trying to get a Zyxel VMG1312-B10A in bridge mode to play nice with an Asus DSL-AC56U modem/router (https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,21243.0.html) and failing miserably.

Since then I've added a Billion BiPAC 8800NL to the mix and tried using this in bridge mode to connect with the Asus. I've had a bit more success with getting this to work but I still find the connection working more off than on and obviously I'd prefer it to be constantly on.

Anyway, today I've had the bright idea of using the Zyxel as the router connected to the 8800NL bridge. It works! There's no losing connection at seemingly random times and there's no loss of connection when I sign into either router.

So, this all points toward the Asus as being the source of the problem and seemingly not getting on with either the Zyxel or the Billion. I had been wondering whether or not the problem is down to a clash of chipsets but this doesn't explain why, when I use the HG612 that I also have, with the Asus, the connection is rock solid between them. I haven't changed any settings within the Asus when switching between the three bridge modems and yet the HG612 works fine whilst the other two don't want to know.

Obviously I'm looking for answers and I'm especially hoping that j0hn may be able to shed some light on this problem as I know he has an 8800NL connected to an Asus and doesn't appear to experience the same sort of problems that I do. I know I have a different model but I don't see that the set-up will be much different.

Anyway, apologies for bringing this problem up again, hopefully someone has a solution. 

EDIT: Getting my facts wrong...

[grahamb]

Also, it occurs to me that I should add that when the Asus detects the dropped connection, it shows a "There is no response from the remote server" message.

[grahamb]

Right, after some messing around with cables, it appears that, even though I isolated the interface group thing for the bridge, the second cable I was using for DSLStats was causing the disconnect issues. Removing it has given me a stable internet connection but obviously I am now unable to get stats from the Billion and also means that I cannot access the Billion's settings.

Having done a lot of Googling, it appears that I can access the Billion through one cable but understanding exactly what numbers I need to put in the Asus's WAN IPv4 setting is confusing.

So, if the Billion's IP address is 192.168.1.1 and the Asus' IP is 192.168.1.254, what do I need to input into the Asus' WAN IPv4 setting to access the Billion?

[Weaver]

So recap, billion is a PPPoE-speaking modem-only device, asus is your router. The asus' lan-facing i/f ip address is 192.168.1.254. Have I got all that correct?

Now. The thing should just work because the router and PPPoE modem don't need or have IP addresses for PPPoEoE, it just works on ethernet without any IP at all. So there is nothing more to do.

Second thing is that you have two LANs where a LAN is defined as an L2 broadcast domain. (The range of devices that an L2 ie ethernet broadcast frame will reach.) Your main LAN is one LAN and the cable between modem and router is another separate one.

However as well as accessing the internet, you might want to be able to see the modem’s web or telnet admin interface for administrative purposes or collecting stats. If I have got things correct, you will probably need to change either the main LAN subnet address range or more likely change the admin address of the modem by reconfiguring it it. Trying to access the modem’s admin i/f (you can always ‘access’ it in the PPP sense by using PPPoEoE and so use it to talk to the internet) is going to be impossible when the modem’s admin i/f is in the same subnet range as your main LAN. Once that is changed, then it is a matter of (1) getting your router to route certain packets to the modem's admin i/f and probably (2) the modem will also have to see them coming from a source address that is in its own subnet range (set in the modem) and (3) the router’s modem-facing interface on the router-to-modem cable will have to be set to something distinct from 2 but in the same subnet range as 2, so say modem=x.y.2.2 router's modem-facing interface=x.y.2.10. If at all possible also configure the modem so it has a gateway address on its LAN that = x.y.2.2 or whatever the router's modem-facing interface is. Finally (4) there will need to be a reverse route from the modem in its subnet range to your own machine on your own LAN.

Now unless all of that is true or you have a really clever router that does a lot automatically then internet access will still always work but you won't be able to administer the modem see its web admin interface or telnet into it or get stats, because either it won't get messages from you, or won't know how to reply, or the responses coming back will get lost.

[grahamb]

Thanks for your reply, Weaver. I hate to say it, and I know you're trying to help, but I'm afraid I'm becoming ever more confused. I'm just hoping that someone who has access to their stats AND the internet at the same time will tell me that "Your modem bridge lan address needs to be this: 192.168.(whatever).(whatever) and your router lan address needs to be this: 192.168.(whatever).(whatever). (The 192.168. part appears to be standard?) Then in your router you need to do this (whatever)."

Obviously, I have very little broadband knowledge but I found this forum, got interested in what people were saying about modem/routers, decided I needed a new router, then started reading about bridged modems, bought a HG612 which I successfully unlocked and successfully set up for internet and stats (following the instructions provided elsewhere on Kitz.co.uk) then went and bought a Zyxel and then a Billion, and now I find myself at this point, in over my head. 

[Weaver]

graham -  I hear you and I will be happy to tell you exactly what numbers to set.

I was trying to be very clear about terminology and that made my reply incredibly long-winded, which was I'm sure not at all helpful.

As to whether or not the router will let you see the modem for admin purposes that depends on the capabilities of the router and our understanding of it. It took me a good while before the penny dropping regarding how to do exactly this with my own router, but I did manage it in the end.

I think we should have working internet access already, yes?

Could we take some screenshots of the modem and router and have a look?

I realise I should have asked if you what is up with having two ethernet ports on your modem, if so we can plug an ethernet cable into one of them and run it to your main switch if you have one or to one of the LAN ports on your router (into the router where any normal pc would go). If so, then our job will be easy.

With two cables, one of which is a modem 'LAN' #2 to router-front-LAN cable, then we then just pick distinct numbers all in the 192.168.1.x range (none must be equal to any of the others, no clashes).

Skip this paragraph: The router's internet-facing PPPoE interface through the physical WAN port connected to your modem will have some completely different address such as 192.0.2.x something handed to you by your ISP and you should not set that, let it get set up automatically, unless your ISP needs you to set it to something. That is the real global public address that the internet sees. That hasn't changed and doesn't need to be involved. So be don't care about that. There we have an address of another software pseudo-'interface' going through the WAN socket carrying PPP-wrapped internet bound traffic.

I do not have two sockets on my modems so the twin cables thing is not an option for me.

I have single cable working for stats, but it is hard and may be impossible. Twin cable setup is easy and bound to be doable.

[Weaver]

Apologies if you know all this already, but a general note.

Every interface also including made-up 'pseudo-interfaces' invented by software needs a distinct address. addresses are addresses of endpoints not of computers, thats just something that we say being lazy. A computer often has lots of ip addresses and each individual interface can have more than one address as well sometimes.

Over-generalising and being a bit sloppy for the sake of brevity -

The two ends of a cable need an address each and these should be inside a common enclosing address range ('subnet' range) of some size. These addresses must not be equal, no clashes. The two ends ought to agree on the common range (subnet range) chosen.

Each network cable or LAN that has a distinct subnet associated with it should have ranges of associated addresses (generally) that do not overlap the ranges used on any other cables or connected LANs that are in other sinners. So don't use for example 10.0.1.0-255 and 10.0.1.0-255 for endpoints of two cables going into two separate interfaces on a router because otherwise this may very well confuse a router as it uses the distinct ranges to keep track of what's going on.

Switches have groups of physical ports that are all connected to the same LAN and are not associated with different subnets (address ranges). These groups need to be counted as like one physical port for the purposes of the previous paragraph. Within a port group you do have (can't avoid having) the same address range.

Hope these notes help. Ignore if not and sincere apologies if you know all this already.

[grahamb]

Right, I have screenshots uploaded to Photobucket. The thing is, I cannot get them to display on the forum. I've tried to follow Oldfogy's tutorial but I'm not able to preview the photo. I'll try to show one below, see if I've got it right:



Edit: failed miserably, again...

Need more help.

[Weaver]

And there will be more stuff in the 'LAN' page, listed in the left hand column further down.

[grahamb]

Weaver, can you actually see the photo in the post I made?

[grahamb]

In fact, it'll be a whole lot easier if I just do this:

http://s1174.photobucket.com/user/grahamb64/story

See if you or anyone else can glean anything from it. 

[Weaver]

I can see the other pages now, it's a bit blurry though.

As for the yes/no on/off selection buttons, I can't tell which is on/yes and which is off/no and selected vs unselected.

* I would have ipv4/ipv6 selected. Does your ISP offer IPv6 yet? Someone here will know.

* UPnP off unless you need it for certain games for example. (Some people are worried about UPnP and security.)

Then see if you can traceroute to whatever address the modem's web admin i/f is set to live at (configured on the modem) using the twin cables technique if possible.

[j0hn]

https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=14621.0

[Weaver]

Well done j0hn and Chrys for the i-tables magic.

[grahamb]

I knew I'd seen that thread before. I was doing a forum search the other day and couldn't find it, and I even went through Chrysalis' posts via his/her profile and gave up as there's about 313 pages of posts. 

Anyway, do I need to follow this:

192.168.1.x is lan subnet
192.168.2.254 is billion 2nd lan subnet ip (the default)

run the following on the router. (not the billion)
Code: [Select]
ifconfig eth0:1 192.168.2.253 netmask 255.255.255.0
- this allows the router to contact the billion 2nd subnet. (this applies to asuswrt, other routers may use a different interface, indeed tomatousb uses one of the vlan interfaces).
then run this in the router, this command is valid for both asuswrt and tomatousb, but I dont know if is any good for ddwrt, openwrt etc.
Code: [Select]
iptables -t nat -I POSTROUTING -s ! $(nvram get lan_ipaddr) -d 192.168.2.0/24 -j SNAT --to 192.168.2.253
- this allows any device on your lan with the 192.168.1.x subnet with router set as gateway to access the billion over the wan cable.


...but run the iptables thing in the next post on the thread?

Also, I take it I have to telnet in to the Asus to do it? And as well as enabling telnet on the Asus do I have to enable SSH as well? I probably need to be walked through, if anyone has the patience.